(Edition 1.1 20000630-20011124)
Frequently Asked Questions on Old Testament texts are listed herein. All answers are predicated on the premise that God exists and that the Bible is the inspired word of God as revealed to His servants the Prophets.
Christian Churches of God
PO Box 369, WODEN ACT 2606, AUSTRALIA
(Copyright ã2000, 2001 Wade Cox) This paper may be freely copied and distributed provided it is copied in total with no alterations or deletions. The publisher’s name and address and the copyright notice must be included. No charge may be levied on recipients of distributed copies. Brief quotations may be embodied in critical articles and reviews without breaching copyright.
This paper is available from the World Wide Web page:
http://www.logon.org and http://www.ccg.org
One True God:
God exist-Why is God eternal-Many names for God-Which name, which entity-Elohim/Eloah-Elohim plural-How many elohim-Jehovah/Jehovah of Hosts-SHD 3068/3069-Two different beings-God look on sin-God and His Law
Angel of YHVH: Is Christ YHVH-Worship the son-Great Angel OT-Who spoke to Abraham-Who did Moses see-Who talked to Moses and Aaron
Sons of God: How many sons of God-Difference in heavenly beings-24 Thrones/Elders-4 living creatures-4 rivers/4 Cherubim-Lion headed systems-Who are the host-Cause of rebellion-Cherub rebel-Rebellion-Fallen host repent-Angels male or female Lucifer: Meaning of Lucifer-Satan still has access to God-Satan not always evil- Abaddon/Apollyon Angels: Function of angels-Can we recognise angels-Pray to angels
Nephilim: Humans before Adam-Pre/post Adam DNA-Nephilim not resurrected Adam and Eve: Why create man-Mankind’s destiny-Adam rebuke Eve-Life before Adam-Children’s stories-Apple forbidden fruit-Different races-Vegetables or meat first-Physical condition early people Noah: Origin or faces from Noah-Flood worldwide-Noah’s faith Abraham: Blessings for Hagar/Ishmael
Two tablets of stone-6 and 4 or 5 and 5-First Commandment-Sabbath-Reading the law Society: Uncleanness until sundown-Not coming near wives-Childbirth-Garments etc-Swearing-Violence on innocent-Death penalty-Tattoos-Owe no man-Gambling Food Laws: Mushrooms-Supplements-Pork and fish-Eating meat-Food and ten commandments Tithes and Offerings: 3 or 7 offerings-Atonement tax-Stealing from God
12 Judges-Kings-Numbering of tribes-Order of tribes-Moses: Broken tablets-Wife and children-Hosts of Pharaoh-Red sea-Seven-day march-Fall of Jericho- Red cords-Blood on doorposts-Idols and Images:Golden idol-Why a calf-Worship of images-Golden calf/golden cross-Divisions of Israel
Joshua…Joshua’s life-12 rocks/12 apostles-2 spies
Judges…Judges 9:7-21;-Judges 19-Gideon 70 sons-Samson’s hair-Riddle to 30
Daniel…Daniel 12:1-2;-2:43;-7:9-10;-Daniel and 3 in oven-Lion’s den
Full moon-Time lost-Number 7-Jubilees: What is a Jubilee-How to count-Blown on Atonement-5 months in 50th or 1st year-End of Jubilee Feasts: Where does he place his name-Assemblies of God-Fat of the Feast-Pentecost: Shavuot-Trumpets: Trumpets blown-Feast of Shofar-New Year-Atonement: Meaning-Tribute tax-Half Shekel
FAQ Old Testament
One True God
Why do you believe that God exists?
A: It is written only a fool says in his heart that there is no God. The entire structure of the creation demands that God exist: From the Laws of Thermodynamics to the phase space volume selection of the universe and Quantum Mechanical theory. The philosophical basis of Causation is singularist and not supervenient. Why would you think that there is no God?
Why do you think God is eternal? The fact that God created us should not mean that God never dies. Maybe your God just had special power to create the whole world and maybe His life has just been very long, of years old.
A: God stands outside of time and space. The Bible is very clear that there is only One True God, whom no man has ever seen or ever can see (John 1:18), and who dwells in unapproachable light and who alone is immortal (1Tim. 6:16).
We know this to be true as the phrase “space volume selection of the universe” is held to be a factor of ten to the tenth, to the 123rd power. It cannot be written in normal denary notation, even if the entire substructure of matter in the universe were to be used. In other words, there is a point of origin, and only one for the entire universe.
We now know from the general theory of relativity and subsequent quantum mechanical theory and its adaptations that a substructure, which we call “quarks”, underpins the basis of matter.
We know from the decay of “K Mesons” that there is directionality to time. We know that the structure of matter in the universe is a directional structure in which Space, Time Mass, Energy and Gravity are equivalent expressions of a single fundamental essence, and that essence we call spirit. The Bible is understood to teach us that God creates it “ex nihilo” or “out of nothing”. This was also the doctrine of the Shepherd of Hermas, the earliest of the writings not now included in the New Testament.
God created the entire spiritual realm, and then he created the physical. This is examined in the papers How God Became a Family (No. 187) and The Purpose of the Creation and the Sacrifice of Christ (No. 160). The structure of the creation and the logical necessity of Singularist Causation and the impossibility of Absolute Creation in the work is shown in Creation: From Anthropomorphic Theology to Theomorphic Anthropology (No. B5). I see in my concordance that there are multiple words in Hebrew that are translated as “God.” Do they all mean the same thing? Why do the Hebrews have so many words for God?
A: No, they don’t all mean the same thing. The various names for God are a function of His activity in the creation. Also, beings carry the name “God” and “Yahovah” when they act for the one true God. The name of God in the singular is “Eloah.” “Elohim” is a plural name, which can be used of singular beings.
In the same way “Yahovah” is used of multiple beings of the angelic host including Christ, but “Yahovih” is not so used. “Yahovih” is “Yahovah of Hosts” who is the “Most High” or the “Elyon.” The term “I am that I am” is a corruption of this idea. The text is “ ‘eyeh ‘asher ‘eyeh” or “I will be what I will become.” The term, “Yahovah” is “He causes to be” as a third person form (see fn. to Exodus 3:14 in the Oxford Annotated RSV). The names of God in the various forms are covered in the texts The Names of God (No. 116)andThe Pre-Existence of Jesus Christ (No. 243).
I am confused as to the different names given in the Bible for God. I have read your papers and all makes sense, but it does not tell which name is for which entity. For example, how do you know in Genesis 1:1 that this Elohim is the One True God in the Spirit? In verse 26 it states, “Let us make man in our own image...” That sounds like the plural Elohim and not the One True God. Then I look at 2:4 and on and it states, “YHVH Elohim.” Who is the Elohim in 1:1 and who is YHVH Elohim in 2:4 and how do you know how to distinguish between them? It does say in 2:4 that YHVH Elohim created the Heavens and the Earth. Were they created by YHVH Elohim through His Elohim(s)?
A: Yes, this is a very important question. We have this basic rule. No man has ever seen God, neither heard His voice, nor seen His form (Jn. 1:18). We have this from the mouth of Christ and reinforced by John and Paul. Thus, the beings that are referred to in the Bible as Elohim who were seen or touched were sons of God and not the One True God. This One True God dwells in unapproachable light and no man has seen Him or ever can see Him. All that was experienced by man was delivered by the Great Angel of the Old Testament, who gave the Law to Moses and who became Jesus Christ, or those other sons of God who worked with him and who also bore the name of God. Look at the papers The Names of God (No. 116)andThe Pre-Existence of Jesus Christ (No. 243). The One True God, Eloah has created all things by His will and all beings act under His will.
Am I to conclude that we do not know which elohim it is referring to in Genesis 1:1 and it really does not matter because all the Elohim are acting under the direction of Eloah? Do you think it is the sons of Eloah it is referring to because of the plural used in verse 26? So everything was created through the Elohim for Eloah?
A: The word God in Genesis 1:1 refers to Eloah and the first act of creation already completed, which was the extension of Himself as Elohim. Thus, the extended being is Elohim and He creates as Elohim because it involves multiple beings.
Job 38:4-7 shows the concept. He created and the sons of God were gathered together and the Morning Stars sang for joy at the creation of the earth. Thus, all were elohim under the One True God (cf. Jn. 17:3). It is irrelevant who was allocated tasks from the primary creation, which was the generation of the elohim from Eloah. Look at the papers How God Became a Family (No. 187)andThe Government of God (No. 174). Could you explain and define the Hebrew word for God, “Elohim”? Isn’t this a plural word? Arewe to understand that it encompasses the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?
A: The Hebrew word “Elohim” is a plural word meaning both “God;” and “Gods” plural, depending on its use. The singular word for God is “Eloah.” This is “Elahh” in Chaldean. The plural word for God in Chaldean is “Elahhin’” which is the same meaning as Elohim. “The God” is referred to as “Ha Elohim.” The Arabic came from the eastern Aramaic or Chaldean and that is why the Arabic word for God in the singular is “Allah'.” Elohim extends to cover all the sons of God as a council of elohim and a body of spirit beings. The Bible refers to the elohim as a plurality and elohim is rendered as “aggelos” in Greek and “angels” in English. For example, Psalm 8:5 says of Messiah that “Thou hast made him a little lower than the elohim.” This is translated in the English of the KJV as “angels” from the rendering in the Septuagint (LXX) as “aggelos”. The same is true in the Vulgate, and the Syriac. Thus, it was generally understood for three hundred years before and after Christ that the “elohim” were the “sons of God” who were termed “messengers” or “angels.” This text is also rendered “angels” in Hebrews 2:7. The Angel of the Old Testament is also an elohim. Psalm 97:7 also refers to the elohim as a wider council of elohim. It is a very important and interesting point, which is obscured by the Trinitarian system (see the paper Psalm 8 (No. 14)). The Trinity is a pagan system of the Triune God, which was introduced from Rome in the fourth century. Look also at the papers The Elect as Elohim (No. 1);The Angel of YHVH (No. 24); The Pre-Existence of Jesus Christ (No. 243);Creation: From Anthropomorphic Theology to Theomorphic Anthropology (No. B5)and The Soctratic Doctrine of the Soul (No. B6).
In Genesis 1:26 it says man was created in the image of Elohim. In 2:7 it says that YHVH Elohim formed man of the dust. In Revelation 21:17 it refers to the measure of a man, that is, of an angel. It seems to me that it is talking about two different men and maybe two different Gods. Are the words in the ancient text for man in all the places that I referenced the same word? Are we talking about the same beings?
A: The Bible does speak of various elohim. The elohim are a council, as we know from the Psalms and elsewhere. The text in Revelation speaks of the measure of a man as the measure of an angel, and that tells you that we are all brethren and made in the image of God. This aspect also has ramifications about the angelic host. We are all to become brothers and part of the City of God where God is all in all. Look at the paper The City of God (No. 180).
Are Jehovah and Jehovah of Hosts one and the same, or are we talking about different beings?
A: We are talking about different beings. Yahovah or Jehovah in English (there is no J in Hebrew) was allotted Israel as his possession by the Most High (Deut. 32:8 esp. RSV). The Most High or “Elyon” is Yahovah of Hosts. All beings who act for Yahovah of Hosts have the title, “Yahovah.” Christ was the key figure in the Old Testament as the Great Angel of Yahovah who had this title, but there were others. In Genesis, chapters 18 and 19, we see three Yahovahs who came to see Abraham. The senior remained with Abraham and the other two went on to Lot at Sodom.
They destroyed Sodom by calling down fire from Yahovah in Heaven. Thus there were four there and the One in Heaven who sent the fire down on Sodom. That One is Yahovah of Hosts. He sent Messiah to the world as the giver of the Law and as the protector of Israel. Look also at the papers The Names of God (No. 116);The Pre-Existence of Jesus Christ (No. 243); The Angel of YHVH (No. 24)andEarly Theology of the Godhead (No. 127). The creation had a purpose and Christ had a role in the creation given to him by “Yahovah of Hosts” who is “Yahovih” (cf. The Purpose of the Creation and the Sacrifice of Christ (No. 160)).
In your writings you make a distinction between Yahovah (SHD 3068) and Yahovih (SHD 3069). You state that Yahovih (3069) is superior to Yahovah (3068). It is my understanding that the original script is just the Tetragrammaton that is translated YHVH with no vowels. If I am correct, how did the translators come up with 2 different versions of the word and make one superior to the other when they both were YHVH?
A: The Hebrew Text has preserved these distinctions. The alteration by the Sopherim of “Yahovah” to “Adonai” is a basis for the vowel point argument from Adonai. Look at the comments in Strong’s Hebrew Dictionary for 3068 and 3069. You will see there the distinctions. 3068 is read as “Adonai” and 3069 is read as “elohim.”
I was reading the paper Law and the Second Commandment (No. 254) and in Deuteronomy 11:17 ‘Lord’ is referenced both ways in the same verse. Is this a misprint or are we talking about 2 different beings? If so please explain the difference. Also explain 2Corinthians 6:17-18.
A: The word translated “Lord” in the text is “Yahovah” (SHD 3068) (cf. Green’s Interlinear Bible). The Septuagint makes no distinction in the use of “Kurios,” and it is also translated the same way.
In 2Corinthians 6:17-18, it is speaking of the “Lord Almighty” and there is no distinction. There is a distinction between the entities, as in Zechariah 2:8-11. The “Yahovah” sent to save Israel and Jerusalem is sent by “Yahovah of Hosts.” This is the distinction in Psalm 45:6-7 and seen in Hebrews 1:8-9 as “Messiah.”
Can God look on sin? I heard a sermon where the minister said “God can’t look on sin, that’s why Christ said ‘my God, my God, why have you forsaken me’ as he bore the sins of the world.” Is this true?
A: Yes, God can look on sin but we ask Him not to (Ps. 51:9ff.; Isa. 59:2).
That statement is a myth spread by people who have never read the Psalms properly. The text spoken by Christ was an Aramaic form of the Hebrew in Psalm 22:1. In Psalm 22:24 we read that God did not hide his face from him.
The events in Psalm 22 all refer to Christ and his actual crucifixion. Verse 24 says:
“For He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; Neither has He hid His face from him; But when he cried unto Him, He heard.”
This fiction is designed to deal with the concept of the reparation for sin without real understanding or acknowledging the Wave Sheaf offering and the true concepts of the Passover. Because they do not obey God’s laws and kept pagan systems, they do not understand Scripture and the Laws of God. The matter of the crucifixion and the aspects of Psalm 22 are examined in the papers on the web at http://www.ccg.org and http://www.logon.org
Ezra 9:15 refers to God being righteous, and Psalm 119:172 refers to God’s Law being righteous. Is there a connection between God and His Law?
A: God is holy (Ps. 145:17), perfect (Mat. 5:48), righteous (Ps. 145:17), good (Ps. 25:8) and true (Deut. 32:4) and His Law is holy (Rom. 7:12), perfect (Ps. 19:7), righteous (Ps. 119:172), good (Rom. 7:12), and true (Ps. 119:142). This is because the Law proceeds from the nature of God and not from His whim. This is analysed in the papers Distinction in the Law (No. 96)and Love and the Structure of the Law (No. 200). Spiritual Creation
Angel of YHVH
It was my understanding that “YHVH of Hosts” is the Father and the King is Christ (Zech. 9:9), but in Zechariah 14:16 we are told “all shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts.” Does Christ also have this title “YHVH of Hosts” or is this speaking of “worshipping” both the King and YHVH of Hosts?
A: Christ is given the names he is by the Father and acts for the Father under His delegation. God is King of Kings and Lord of Lords, and yet we see Christ coming as King of Kings and Lord of Lords strapped, as a title, to his thigh (Rev. 19:15-16). Only Yahovah of Hosts is worshipped and as such He is King. The title is given to Christ as it is also given to the elect.
Christ is also given a new name in this process, which will also be written on the elect (Rev. 3:12). We have all been redeemed to be a nation of kings and priests (cf. Rev. chs. 4 and 5 for the council and their statements about the saints and the Messiah).
Because some of these titles given to Christ overlap with titles ascribed to Almighty God, many have misconstrued the intent and believed that Christ is somehow God as God is God, being part of a Trinitarian, Binitarian or Ditheistic Godhead.
This is not the case. These titles given to Christ all convey the concept of delegated authority, even as the Mal’ak of YHVH was termed YHVH and Elohim because he represented YHVH of Hosts (Eloah). See the papers Isaiah 9:6 (No. 224) andThe Names of God (No. 116))
In Daniel 2:45 we read about the Stone that was cut out of the Mountain and then in Daniel 7:13-14 we read about the coronation of the Son before the Ancient of Days. It appears the Son came from the Father differently than all the other creation. It almost seems like a type of cloning the Father did on Himself. Could you comment on this? If this is different from the creation of angels and the physical creation, then it would be quite acceptable to “worship” the Son in addition to the Father. He really would be in the Father and the Father in Him.
A: Christ was generated by God in the same way all the sons of God were generated by God. Christ was sent to earth in a different way and was the “only born god,” the “monogenes Theos” of John 1:18. The vision of Daniel 2 is covered in the papers on the nature of God series of the Bible Study Program (No. B1). Look especially at the paper How God Became a Family (No. 187). No, it would not be acceptable to worship the Son as the Father. The Bible is clear that he who sanctifies and they who are sanctified are of one origin (Heb. 2:11). The doctrine that Father and Son were one God, and the son was worshipped and came to be sacrificed is the doctrine of Attis, and entered Christianity in the Council of the fourth century. “Have we not all one Father? Hath not one God created us?”(Mal. 2:10)
Who was the great Angel who was with Israel in the Old Testament?
A: The belief of the Church in the first and second centuries was that this was Christ. He gave the Law of God to Moses. Justin Martyr, in writing to the Roman Emperor (ca. 150) in his “First Apology,” states categorically that it was the belief of the Christian Church that the Great Angel of the Old Testament who gave the Law to Moses was Christ. That is the teaching of the Original Catholic Church. See also www.originalcatholicchurch.org. Look at the papers The Angel of YHVH (No. 24); The Early Theology of the Godhead (No. 127)andThe Pre-Existence of Jesus Christ (No. 243). Who was it who spoke to Abraham? Was it Jesus? Who destroyed the cities?
A: It was the angel of Yahovah who became Jesus Christ. He was termed Yahovah, as were the other two angels who came with him to meet Abraham, and then the other two Yahovahs went on to Lot at Sodom and Gomorrah. They (Yahovah) then called fire down on the cities from Yahovah out of Heaven (Gen. 19:24). This Yahovah in Heaven was Yahovah of Hosts or Yahovih. These matters are explained in the papers: The Elect as Elohim (No. 1); The Angel of YHVH (No. 24);The Names of God (No. 116)and The Pre-Existence of Jesus Christ (No. 243).
If no man has seen God as John states, then who was it that Moses saw? Didn't he see God?
A: No, Moses did not see the One True God. Christ said no man has seen his form or heard his voice at any time so also repeated by John and Paul (Jn. 1:18; 1Jn. 5:20; 1Tim. 6:16). The belief of the early Church was that the Angel of the Old Testament that gave the Law to Moses was Christ. See the papers The Angel of YHVH (No. 24); The Pre-Existence of Jesus Christ (No. 243) andEarly Theology of the Godhead (No. 127). In Exodus (referring to the 10 plagues) who was giving Aaron and Moses instructions for the pharaoh?
A: The being that was with Israel in the wilderness was the rock that was Christ. He was the Angel of the Old Testament who gave the Law to Moses at Sinai. This was the teaching of the original Church and it is the teaching of the Church today (cf. Justin Martyr, First Apology). Look at the papers: The Angel of YHVH (No. 24);Early Theology of the Godhead (No. 127)andThe Pre-Existence of Jesus Christ (No. 243). Sons of God
How many sons of God does the Bible say there are?
A: The sons of God are mentioned in the texts in the Old Testament, but no number is given. Deuteronomy 32:8 shows the nations were allocated to the sons of God according to their number (this was altered later in the Masoretic Text but the RSV has the text correct). So we have 70 by tradition for this, but we know it was much more than that from the vision in Elijah. Job 1:6; 2:1; and 38:4-7 just mentions the sons of God and the Morning Stars.
Job 33:23 indicates there are a thousand in the structure capable of ransoming men. We get the term “myriads” used of them and the term “armies” is also applied to them (Rev. 19:14). The book of Revelation gives a number of 200 million horsemen which are marshalled by the four angels bound at the Euphrates for the time appointed to slay a third of mankind (Rev. 9:16). These may well be men and not of the heavenly host.
We have no way of knowing if this reference is an exhaustive number or not. Thus, the number of the sons of God, sometimes termed Messengers, in the texts is perhaps 200 Million, but certainly numbered as armies. Perhaps they are as many as people have been since Adam. We will know when we get toThe City of God (No. 180)and are joined with them as a living Temple and residence for God and the Lamb.
Could you explain the differences between all the heavenly beings – sons of God, Angels, Cherubim, Nephilim? Are all sons of God Angels, and all Angels sons of God?
A: All the heavenly host are sons of God. The ones sent to mankind are messengers, termed angels. These are in ranks and positions: Cherubim, Seraphim, and Morning Stars. All are sons of God. Christ is one of them.
The Nephilim are the product of the fallen host. See the paper The Nephilim (No. 154). They have no resurrection. The demons are the sons of God who fell from grace. We will all be Sons of God. Look at the papers How God Became a Family (No. 187);The Government of God (No. 174) andThe Elect as Elohim (No. 1).
Can you explain in a nutshell about the 24 thrones and 24 elders?
A: The inner council of the elohim has thirty beings. These thirty are comprised of the twenty-four elders under the High Priest, who is Messiah. The four Living Creatures are the cherubim around the throne of God. They have the elders allocated to them on the basis of two to a system, with three systems making six to a division. God is in the centre at the throne. This makes thirty.
There are others who then make up the council of the seventy. This structure was reflected in the system in Israel, and at the Tabernacle and the Temple. The twenty-four division high priests and the High priest reflected the council of the elders. The seventy plus two reflected the outer council. Israel was divided into four divisions of twelve tribes, three tribes to a division, and with the priesthood of Levi at the tabernacle or throne (see Numbers 10). The divisions of the priesthood were allotted to the division of the tribes. The structure is also covered in the paper The Government of God (No. 174). Look also at How God Became a Family (No. 187). What are the 4 living creatures and of what importance are they?
A: The Four Living Creatures are the anointed covering Cherubs that stand before the throne of God. The Ark carries two on the Lapporah or cover and another two stand over them. Look at the papers The Ark of the Covenant (No. 196) and The Meaning of Ezekiel’s Vision (No. 108). The paper The Government of God (No. 174)explains their function.
The four living creatures and the Council discharge function within the Host related to administration and judgment. They are in effect quadrant commanders of the universe and cover the throne of God.
The living creatures represent the four stages of the history of the priesthood and Israel. The first stage was the tabernacle of the wilderness and the Judges. The second stage or cherub was as the first Temple from Solomon to the captivity. The third stage was from the reestablishment after the return to the destruction in 70 CE and the fourth stage was as the era of the seven churches until the return of the Messiah.
Each stage is as a covering cherub that protects the throne of God and by human hands (under the wings) accomplishes His purpose on earth. The living creatures have been described elsewhere in the Bible but the symbolism of the form has a much deeper meaning than that of a created oddity with four different faces. In Revelation 4:6-8 we see the same faces but separate as four living creatures each with one of the faces but with six wings.
Do the four rivers flowing from Eden have anything symbolically to do with the four Cherubim around the throne of God?
A: Yes, symbolically the rivers represent the four divisions of the creation. The creation and the role of the cherubim have been examined in a number of works. These are The Government of God (No. 174);The Purpose of the Creation and the Sacrifice of Christ (No. 160); The Doctrine of Original Sin Part I The Garden of Eden (No. 246) andHow God Became a Family (No. 187). You referred to the man and lion-headed systems; what are the roles or duties of these positions?
A: They are the quadrant commanders of God’s system. They are anointed covering cherubs, and they also appear as such in the Temple in Ezekiel. Revelation shows that they are at the throne of God. They occupy the position senior to the 24 elders, and they are seen in Ezekiel chapter 1 et seq where they are identified as the Cherubim. They have set areas of responsibility as we see from the fact that they do not change their orientation no matter where the throne is headed. Look at the papers: The Meaning of Ezekiel’s Vision (No. 108);How God Became a Family (No. 187);The Government of God (No. 174)andThe City of God (No. 180).
Please give me as much information about the Hosts as you can. Who exactly are they, how many, their function and roll? Was Jesus part of the Host?
A: The Host are the sons of God. They are called messengers only from the fact of their mission to man. Angel is a derivation of the Greek word for messenger. “Malak” in the Hebrew has become “Malaikat” in the Arabic, and on into the Indonesian etc.
The Host are centred on the throne of God and serve Him. Christ was one of those sons of God in the beginning. The process is explained in the papers How God Became a Family (No. 187);The Government of God (No. 174)and The Pre-Existence of Jesus Christ (No. 243). We are to become sons of God and elohim and that is covered in the paper The Elect as Elohim (No. 1). The Meaning of Ezekiel's Vision (No. 108) also has information of interest regarding the Cherubim. How we all fit together is covered in the paper The City of God (No. 180). What was the cause of the rebellion of the host?
A: It was always understood as being their objection to our creation. The Koran gives this as the specific reason. That is why Satan is the accuser of the brethren. They accuse us night and day to God. Look at the papers How God Became a Family (No. 187)andThe Government of God (No. 174). Lost Sheep and the Prodigal Son (No. 199)is also of interest in this matter as is The Judgment of the Demons (No. 80).
Could a cherub rebel and lose his position? If so what does the future hold for him?
A: Yes one, Satan, and perhaps two did rebel. They can repent like all of God’s sons. Look at the paper The Judgment of the Demons (No. 80)and alsoLost Sheep and the Prodigal Son (No. 199). God’s mercy endures forever.
If one third of the host rebelled and there are 30 in the inner council one could speculate 10 rebelled. Is that why there are 10 components; 7 church eras, 2 witnesses, and Messiah needed to repair the problem/breach created by the hosts rebellion?
A: One might speculate that way and it would seem logical; however, the figures used by the Satanist cells are of the order of twelve/twelve. It seems they actually might have got more from the inner council than a third. However, over all they got a third as it says. Perhaps it was two cherubs and the ten. We will know when we get to Jerusalem and Christ gives us new information.
The ten components of the Temple are not related to individuals, save in the Messiah and the two witnesses. The seven are churches unless we identify the seven angels of the seven churches as potential replacements in the host, and the human elements as the new section.
If the fallen angelic host (the demons) can repent and still become sons of God, then maybe you believe that the unrepentant demons will be killed forever? What is the difference then, between us and them? Are people just another more creative way of doing the same thing that is done with angels?
A: Yes, that is the answer. The human creation with the family system was another way of giving the angels similar responsibilities of the human family, but with greater oversight. When Satan objected to our creation and the third of the host objected and rebelled with him, they were then given responsibility for us. They became our accusers instead of our spiritual parents. They became an obstruction to the plan and our salvation. After the final rebellion at the end of the Millennium, the demons will be reduced to physical form and die. This is the sense of being brought down to the side of the Pit and to die like any man, as we see in Ezekiel 28 and also the same sense in Isaiah 14. This aspect has been examined in the paper The Fall of Egypt The Prophecy of Pharaoh’s Broken Arms (No 36)and Lucifer: Light Bearer and Morning Star (No. 223). They will then be placed within the physical resurrection at the Second or General Resurrection of the Dead. One can imagine the difficulties they will face when dealt with, in examining their roles over the last 6000 years and the havoc they caused even by simply failing to prevent false action, let alone actually inducing it in the human host.
It was probably to escape this accounting that they developed the theory and doctrine among the mystery cults, especially the Orphic, of the daemon among the humans which was a fallen theos or god, and which had to be purged in order to return to heaven. The inducement of humans in the endeavour was probably a reaction and a desire to be returned to their former estate without enduring the process of the second and physical resurrection under the human elect of the First Resurrection.
The soul doctrine is an invention of Socrates of the “psuche” in reaction to the Orphic doctrines, and from which we get the immortal soul and which later went to the heaven of the Gnostics. The eternal soul is another lie, on the same vein as demons cannot die and they cannot repent. Christ was reduced from one of the elohim to the form of a man and he died on the cross, was resurrected and ascended into heaven. If he could do that, then so can any one of the demons. God has no limitations in the creation. Look at the papers The Pre-Existence of Jesus Christ (No. 243);The Judgment of the Demons (No. 80);The Resurrection of the Dead (No. 143); The Soul (No. 92); Lost Sheep and the Prodigal Son (No. 199)andThe Socratic Doctrine of the Soul (No. B6). I have read up on the paper entitled The Nephilim (No. 154). The angels involved in this sin to create Nephilim were clearly male in origin. So, does that mean that all the spiritual creation is closer to a male type as we understand male and female, or are there also spirit beings that would be closer to the female species?
A: The sons of God have the capacity to materialise in whatever form. If they can appear as a man, they can also appear as a woman and do appear as women often, hence Fatima etc. They appeared as Balaam’s donkey in one instance. Satan is termed the serpent and may well have literally appeared to Eve in that guise. We make the mistake of thinking that the Spirit world is just another copy of this one. We see through a glass darkly.
The Spirit world has the capacity to move through time and space without the limitations we understand or think within. Mass, space, time, gravity and energy are equivalent expressions of the single fundamental essence we understand as spirit. Some of our scientists have made the error of assuming an immanent God from this basis.
The sons of God were all gathered together here when the world was created. Their leaders, the Morning Stars, sang for joy. Satan was among them as a Morning Star and the anointed Covering Cherub. The function of woman was the capacity by which God would produce more sons of God.
Demons appeared as men to interfere with the creation. They may well have become women but then they would have been tied to the creation and the upbringing of the cuckoos they laid. They were probably emotionally immature for that responsibility without the Holy Spirit of God. Also, the woman was the one they influenced. They lost the Holy Spirit when they finally rebelled and were cast from heaven. They then had to produce the pseudo logon. Thus, they are no longer consubstantial. Look at the paper Consubstantial with the Father (No. 81).
We will all be asexual in the resurrection. The second physical resurrection also seems to demand that asexuality. Look at the paper The Resurrection of the Dead (No. 143)and Outline Timetable of the Age (No. 272).
Are you aware of any scriptures besides Psalm 8:5 that refer to spirit beings (other than the Father and the One that became Christ) as elohim?
A: Yes, there are a few texts. Moses is referred to as an elohim in Exodus 7:1. Abraham is referred to as an elohim in the original Hebrew text in Genesis 23:6, which is termed Mighty Prince in the English.
Satan is referred to as an elohim or theoi in various texts. Paul says there are many theoi (theoi polloi) or elohim in the New Testament. Zechariah 12:8 said that the household of David will become elohim with the Angel of Yahovah (Jehovah) at our head. It is written: “I said ye are gods and Scripture cannot be broken” (Jn. 10:34-35). Look at the paper The Elect as Elohim (No. 1). Psalm 45:6-7 says that Christ, our elohim, was anointed with the oil of gladness above his partners. Thus, there is a council. Psalm 82 deals with this aspect. The other references are covered in that paper. Also look at the The Angel of YHVH (No. 24). Are the 1000 sacrifices offered by Solomon in the Tabernacle referring to the council of the 1000 sons of God? Just as Job 33:23-24 talks of one of 1000 and redemption through Messiah; or Genesis 20:16 mentions the 1000 pieces of silver to Abraham for the vindication of Sarah but the entire council needed the appeasement for the offence; or Song of Songs with 1000 shields (Eph. 6:16 shield of faith to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.) Bottom line, do all these scriptures tie to God’s administrative council of a 1000?
A: Yes, the reference in Genesis 20:16 is in fact an appeasement along the lines we see in Job, where the redemption was from one of the 1000. And the irony of Abimelech, in using the term brother, is because of the sin and damage he suffered.
The notion of being protected by the host is evident as well, as being redeemed by one of the 1000. This is fairly esoteric ground now. Nothing turns on it, other than the view that sin was an offence against God. That was why thirty pieces of silver was paid for Christ. Because it was an offence against the council and it was also deemed the price of a slave
What does the name Lucifer mean?
A: Lucifer means Light bearer. The name comes from his function as the Morning Star of this planet. It is an educative and controlling role which is taken up by Christ and the elect at the end of the age, in the not too distant future, for the millennial reign. The terms are covered in the paper Lucifer: Light Bearer and Morning Star (No. 223). In remembering that Satan came before God with the angels as told in Job, I am wondering if he still has this access to God and does he still have influence on the angels?
A: Yes, he is the accuser of our brethren and he still has one third of the host under him. Some are held to have repented from the activities of the early Church. He is cast down and knows his time is short. Christ said He saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. Thus, he must be cast down. Revelation speaks of the short time and his fury against the Church because of that short time. We are in that time. In fact, we are past the 1260 years of the woman in the wilderness. The Fifth Seal is still continuing and the woman that rides the beast, who is drunk on the blood of the saints, is about to be destroyed. Look at the paper Outline Timetable of the Age (No. 272) and also The Role of the Fourth Commandment in the Historical Sabbath-keeping Churches of God (No. 170).
I believe that Lucifer and Satan are one and the same being. This presents a bit of a problem though for this would mean that Satan was not always evil wouldn’t it? This is looking more like it may be true as Ezekiel 28:15 shows him being perfect from the day he was created. So how better can one be than perfection?
A: Lucifer was the anointed covering Cherub of the Throne of God and he was perfect among the sons of God. Lucifer means, “light bearer” and thus he was the educator of the host and Morning Star of the planet. See the paper Lucifer: Light Bearer and Morning Star (No. 223). He and the fallen host became iniquitous. They sinned and tried to grasp equality with God. They failed in the test of faith. They became accusers of the brethren at the creation of Adam. Christ was not, and did not seek co-equality with God and did not try to grasp what was not His. He preferred to be given and earn the gift of power by obedience, and so He became a man and He humbled himself unto death, even death on the stake (Phil. 2:5-7). See the paper The Purpose of the Creation and the Sacrifice of Christ (No. 160). He became a son of God in power by His resurrection from the dead (Rom. 1:4). See the paper The Pre-Existence of Jesus Christ (No. 243). All of God’s creation is perfect, but we have the choice to mess it up, and we have done so. The Plan is perfect and includes a safety net, so we will all attain to perfection in God’s time. Look at the paper Outline Timetable of the Age (No. 272).
Some of my friends believe the earth is the place of restraint for the angels that sinned. In Luke 8:31 I read where the demons begged not to be cast into the deep or the Abyss. Also Revelation 9:11, 11:7,17:8, IPeter 3:19, IIPeter 2:4 and Jude 6 leads me to believe there is more to this than just the earth in general. Is Abaddon/Apollyon a king restrained also for a future release or is he the same as Satan? Where might this place be? The ocean possibly?
A: The New Testament term is also “Tartaros” which is reserved specifically for the fallen host. Abbadon or Appollyon is the destroyer and, as such, it is another term for Satan and the system he commands. The fallen host or demons have power over the earth and over mankind for 6000 years. At the return of the Messiah, Satan and the demons are restrained for the thousand years of the Millennium.
The pit is death and the texts indicate that the demons are made to die like any man. They are then dealt with in the Second Resurrection like anyone else. This matter has been examined in the papers The Judgment of the Demons (No. 80)and inLost Sheep and the Prodigal Son (No. 199). The timing of the activities is seen from the paper Outline Timetable of the Age (No. 272). Angels
When asked what is the function of angels or what are they, the most common answer heard is that they are simply messengers indicating that they are basically footmen or errand boys. This does not exactly add up. For instance, the 38th chapter of Job is an explanation to Job as to how everything was created. At verse 7, it says that the sons of God, shouted for joy at the creation. I believe sons of God here refers to the angels, so if they were already around at the creation of the earth, and before the creation of man, then what were they doing up to this point?
A: Yes, that is the point. Angel is from the Greek “aggellos” meaning “messenger” which was applied to the heavenly beings. In the Septuagint the word “aggellos” was used to translate various concepts. It was used to translate “Sons of God” in Deuteronomy 32:8. During the post-Temple period, Jewish scribes changed that to read “Sons of Israel” to get away from the concept of there being sons of God in charge of Israel, as Christ was associated with the Angel of Yahovah as a son of God.
The LXX of Isaiah 9:6 says, “Angel of Great Counsel” for the Messiah who was son of God. Job 1:6 and 2:1 use the term “Aggeloi”, “Angels of God” for the “sons of God.” The same is also in Job 38:4-7 where “angels” were used for “sons of God”. The understanding of the meaning of the Hebrew texts is starting to slip by this time. And the concept of the Hebrew Morning Stars is not well understood by the translators in the LXX translation. Nehemiah says they had to explain the Hebrew to the populace during his time because they no longer understood it, speaking only Aramaic.
Basically, an Angel was a messenger. Before the creation there was no one to carry messages to, and so they were simply all sons of God. When men were created they were sent to men as messengers, and so all of them who were in that capacity were angels. Look at the papers The Angel of YHVH (No. 24); The Pre-Existence of Jesus Christ (No. 243)and How God Became a Family (No. 187). For the long-term plan look at the paper The City of God (No. 180). Were some people able to recognise angels as soon as they saw them and yet others did not? If they appear as humans are we supposed to know they are angels?
A: The Patriarchs recognised them, as we see by what they did and said in the Bible. It’s the “duck test.” If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it’s a duck. Sometimes they are with us and we are not informed. We entertain angels unawares (Heb. 13:2). God makes His wishes known through His servants the prophets (Amos 3:7).
These people speak for God. So too, the sons of God in the heavenly Host speak for God, and are sent to men as “angels” or messengers. Look at the papers on the sons of God for example The Angel of YHVH (No. 24)andHow God Became a Family (No. 187).
I have been presented with Genesis 48:16 as a supporting scripture to pray to angels. What is the correct understanding of this text?
A: This text, and the comment by Stephen, is the only text in the Bible where Christ is addressed in prayer. Moses spoke to him face to face, and stood between him and Israel, as did David. David addresses him is Psalm 45:6-7. When he says: “Therefore God thy God has anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy partners.” In each of the cases concerned, it is a direct request to Christ in his role as protector of Israel. Look at the paper The Pre-Existence of Jesus Christ (No. 243). In each case they are used as teaching comments. How would we know that the Angel of Redemption was the elohim of Israel (Zech. 12:8; Heb. 1:8-9), appointed by his God, unless we had the direct testimony of the Patriarchs in the Scriptures to demonstrate this fact? They reflect the direct relationship of the prophets with Christ. We pray to and worship only the One True God.