Always think before you say something or try to pass a judgement.
You said " But the Ahlalbayt(as) is not here to solve your problems and we the Muslims have to wait for the twelfth Imam (a.s) to re-appear and Allah(swt) knows when the Imam (a.s) will appear, so what we all to do ? It is the Ayatollahs who are well educated in Islam which they can solve every problem you have "
Please , I humbly request you to ponder over your statement as you may be held responsible for doing 'Gustakhi' (disrespect) against Imam Mahdi (AS).
Please allow me to quote some examples for you.
Do you believe that Shaitan Iblees can misguide you and pull you away from the right path?
Iam sure the answer would be a definate YES. Can you see Shaitan? No.
Is Shaitan Ghaib? Yes
Now according to your statement Imam Alaihis Salam cannot guide you when in Ghaiba (Nauzobillah). Think again my brother .
Let us look at your statement from another angle.
We all surely know that we have to stick to Quran and AhlilBait (AS) till Qayamah - Now if your statement is correct the above order stands null and void (which is not possible come what may) because according to you (Nauzobillah) Imam cannot help us as he is not here. So we have to reject your statement straightaway.
Now the question arises what should we do if we dont follow these self labled ayatullahs or Mullahs in my words.
Let us ask AhlilBait (AS) about it and refrain from answering it ourselves as we are ordered to stick to Quran and AhlilBait (AS) and never leave it at any time till Qayamah .
What should Shias do during Imam Mahdi (AS)'s occultation according to Masomeen (AS)
Baharul Anwar 11th Jild Page 671
Imam As Sadiq (AS) said : "Whenever it occurs, everyone should stick to what was conveyed to them by the Aimma (AS) before, till you find out who is the Imam (Reappearance of Imam)"
Baharul Anwar 11th Jild Page 672
Imam Jaffar As Sadiq (AS) said : "When such a time comes and you cannot meet your Imam-e-Zamana (AS), you should continue to follow the orders from Aimma (AS) which you already have untill the reappearance of Imam (AS) is announced or proven."
Also see the below references which has the same sort of wordings :
Baharul Anwar 11th Jild Page 672
Baharul Anwar 11th Jild Page 673
You may ask here that there are sayings of Aimma (AS) which are not authentic in the eyes of Marajas and many of them contradict each other for which I would quote the letter of Imam Mahdi (AS) and would also request you to read the mail of brother Mir Luqman Ali from India on this page. Plus I would add a few more books to the list provided by him .
Usool Al Kaafi by Shaikh Kulyani
Furooh Al Kaafi by Shaikh Kulyani
Biharul Anwar etc.
Now allow me to end this mail with the letter of Imam Mahdi Alaihis Salam as mentioned earlier.
Imam Mahdi (AS)'s letter (Usool Al Kaafi - Kitabul Aql , Baab 22 , Hadith # 7)
"Imam-e-zamana (AS) in his letter replying to a question regarding someone to whom two of his Muslim brothers brings two different Ahadith about the same matter. What should be done when one proves that it should be done and from the second, it does not. Imam Mahdi (AS) said : Follow anyone of them with a belief that it is a tradition of Aimma (AS) whose obediance is compulsory and not with a view of giving one tradition priority over the other."
As you have wisely accepted that the verse "Ateeullah wa Atteh ur Rasool wa oolil Amray Minkum" was in favour of Aimma (AS), how on earth does it prove that we have to consult these self labled Ayatullahs? The ayat of Quran that you quoted is a clear proof that the only ones whose obediance is mandatory are Allah, Rasool Allah and Aimma (AS). There is no such provision in Islam which makes us follow these Gunah-gar (fallible) people who have openly negated the Ahadith of Aimma (AS).
Please do let us know how did you jump to that conclusion which does not match at all - it is not even close enough!
I guess the above should be enough to clarify the stand taken by others against these mullahs and is also sufficient to negate your theory .
I once again thank Shianews and all the participants who have gathered the courage to speak the truth openly in front of the whole world . May Imam Al Qaim Baqiyatullah (AS) reward you all with his blessings in this world and Qayamah.
Zainabia - Damishq - Syria
02 January, 2003
Hats off to Shia news for starting this debate about role of mullahs in Islam. Keep up the good work going. I have observed that some persons are against the editor in starting this debate. I think this is the most important issue connected with our lives and Imaan these days. This issue should be running as long as shianews runs and I pray to God and Chaharda Masoomeen (AS) for long life of ShiaNews and all the concerned persons running it. As for this debate, I'll be inshallah providing more proofs about these mullah's activities against Shiaan e Ali (AS). They call themselves Shia only to grab Khums money.
Mir Lukman Ali
03 January, 2003
Mr. Sajid Hussain from UAE has pointed to one topic which is very important when discussing Mullahs and their disgusting concept of Ijtehad - Welayat e Amir al Momineen (AS). We often hear that this Ayatullah and that Ayatullah says that shahdat of Ali un Wali Allah is Mustahib and not Wajib. Some even go to the extent of declaring it as a Biddah. I see many Shias believing these Ijtehadi Mullahs, never bothering to check what Masomeen (AS) have said about this important Shahadat.
Ok, I know there are loads among us who believe that Masomeen (AS) have no say whatsoever when a Mullah with the title of Ayatullah or Wali e Faqeeh has given his verdict on something. But as a follower of the Masomeen (AS), it is my duty to bring to the knowledge of the public what they (AS) have said regarding Ali un Wali Allah. So here are some traditions of the Masomeen (AS):
Ehtejaj-e-Tibrisi Page 230 Volume 1
Tradition of Imam Jaffer-e-Sadiq (as) : "From among you, who ever and where ever one says La ila ha illallah - Mohammadun Rasool Allah, one should also say "Ali (as) is Amirul Momineen and wali Allah".
Ehtejaj-e-Tibrisi Page 176 Volume 1 (Page 173 or 174 in some editions)
Tradition of Imam Ali Raza (as) : "Allah said that He will not accept anyones acts of worship (Amal) unless he accepts and stands witness to Ali (as)'s Wilayat just like he accepts the Risalat of Mohammed (pbuh & hp)."
Biharul Anwar (Volume 9 page 333 )
According to a well source tradition when our Holy Prophet (pbuh&hp) instructed "Habshis, Qabtis, Ajmis and Arabs to say Kalma-e-Shahadat, he also instructed them to accept and say Ali (as) is Ameerul Momineen and is "Wali -e- Amr" after me.
As we all know that Azaan is comprised of all aspects of Eeman and Tauheed and Nabuwat is a part of Eeman. Hence we recite "La ilaha illallah - Mohammun Rasool Allah" in Azan. Now the above traditions prove that where ever we say "La ilaha illallah - Mohammun Rasool Allah " we have to say "Ali (as) is Ameerul Momineen and Wali Allah"
Now the Mullah lovers would start jumping all over the world and say that the Wali e Faqeeh and Ayatullah this and Ayatullah that says not to include Ali (as)'s Wilayet in Azaan. Lets see what the Masomeen (AS) say about Azaan and Ali (as).
Biharul Anwar Volume 9 page 69
Tradition of Imam Jaffer-e- Sadiq (as) through ibn Abbas; "In Sura Tauba the word Azaan means Ali ibn Abi Talib (as)."
This proves Ali (as) is not only Qull-e-Eeman but he is also Qull-e-Aazaan. When God speaks of Azaan He means Ali (as). The Masomeen (AS) (who before the advent of the Wali e Faqeeh and the rest of his gang were the only ones to explain Quran to us all) confirm that Azaan = Ali (as).
Don't you people think that not saying the third Shadat in Kalma or Azaan is something against what Allah and the Masomeen (AS) have asked us to do?
Recitation of Ali un Wali ullah is an act which brings you closer to God Almighty, His Prophet (pbuh) and AhlulBait (as). The only kalma that is accepted by God is the one which includes recitation of Ali un Wali ullah as this Ayat-e-Quran explains :
Surah Fatir - Aya # 10"Man kana yureedul ............... al Kalam al Tayyab wal amal al saleh yarfa"
In the above ayat of Quran the word used is "Al Kalam Al Tayyab" which is in plural form (Sega-e-Jama) and in Arabic the plural form like this is only only used for Three or more. So the usage of "Al Kalam Al Tayyab" or the The Purified (3 or More) Kalmas clearly indicates that the Kalma which reaches and is accepted by God Almighty consists of Three or more Kalma. Now if we see that majority of Muslims including some Shias only recite Two Kalmas (Kalma-e-Tauheed & Kalma-e-Risalat) in Tashahud, allow me to say that this type of Kalama does not reach or is not accepted by God Almighty as he only accepts the shahadat (witness) which consists of 3 or more Kalmas.
Now lets see how Imam Jafar e Sadiq (as) explains the words "Al Kalam Al Tayyab"
Our Imam (as) said "Al Kalam Al Tayyab means the act of momin whereby he recites La illaha illallah - Mohammedun Rasool Allah and Ali un Wali ullah"
The above is an absolutely clear and prominent proof that we should all recite Ali un Wali ullah not just in Kalma, Aazaan and Aqamah as compulsory part but also in (Tashahud) Namaz as an integral part.
As I've noticed throught the discussion that the traditions of Masomeen (AS) have no effect on people siding the Ayatullahs, maybe something from the Ayatullahs might help them see the light.
Ayatullah Abdul Nabi Iraqi writes in his Book "Al Taleen" Page 155 : Hazrat Salman Farsi in the presence of our Holy Prophet (pbuh&hp) always used Ali un Wali Ullah in Azaan"
Shaikh As Suduq in his Book "Al Tauheed" page 228 writes a Tradition of Moula Ali ibn Abi Talib Ameerul Momineen (as) : "No Doubt, there is an Angel of God Almighty who's one wing spreads over the East and the other one spreads over the West , at the time of Salat says Azaan and in his Azaan the Angel says, 'I conform that there is no God but Allah, Mohammed (pbuh&hp) is the master of all prophets and his "Wasih" (Ali ibn Abi Talib (as)) is the master of all "Wasiyeen".
As the compulsion of recitation of Ali un Wali ullah has been proven above, let us now see what would be the result if we dont recite it? which will be equivalent to not accepting the right of wilaya of Moula Ali (as) in the right way. The way it should be;
Biharul Anwar (Volume 9 page 320)
Our Holy Prophet (pbuh&hp) said : "Who ever is happy to go to Hell (Jahannam) should refuse the Wilayat-e- Ali Ibn Abi Talib."
Bihar ul Anwar (Volume 9 Page 462)
Conveyed through Ibn Abbas : On the day of Judgement "Qayama" Moula Ali (as) will say Azaan and will say; "Be informed! who ever refused to accept my (Moula Ali (as)'s) Wilayat is cursed by God Almighty"
Urdu Translation : "Agah ho Jao, marey wilayat ki takzeeb karnay waloon par Allah ki lanat hai "
Kokab Durri : Page 285
Tradition of the Holy Prophet (pbuh&hp)
"Who ever refuses to accept the right (Haq) of Ali (as) is surely one of the three :
2) Born as a result of Zina by his/her Parents
3) His/Her mother concieved when she was having her periods
Would anyone of you like to be in the position where you are direct beneficiaries of the above tradition? I am sure no one would want that.
From all the above traditions, which are quoted in Authentic Books anyone in his presence of mind and faith on the infallibilty of Muhammad wa Aal e Muhammad (as) would easily accept that the recitation of Ali un Wali ullah in Aazaan, Tashahud and all other acts of worship is compulsory and is something that even the angels do let alone Sahabas like Hazrat Salman-e-Farsi (as) who, in our Masoomeen (as) 's words "Salman Farsi is included in our Ahlul Bait".
After reading all these traditions, do you still believe that any fallible (ghaer masoom) scholar, alim, ayatullah, wali e faqeeh or mullah has the right to tell you not to recite Ali un Wali ullah as a compulsary part of Kalma, Azaan or Tashahud?
Imam Ali never took any khums from his people during his time.
05 January, 2003
A lot of people have sent in their comments in the past two days in which they have used Ahadeeth of Masomeen (AS) and also verses from the Quran. Unfortunately, references for the Ahadeeth etc. have not been provided. We request all such friends to please send in your comments again with proper references i.e. name of book, name of Masoom you are qouting, Tradition number, volume number etc., verse and chapter number when qouting Quran. Same applies when you are qouting scholars etc.
We will have to simply ignore all emails without proper references in future.
Some readers keep sending in hate mails which they insist on getting published. Criticism is one thing and being rude and using foul language is another. Please keep in mind that your comments are also being read by children.
We have published your comments without bias and arguments from both sides have been included in the discussion. We will not reply individually. Emails with foul language will simply be ignored.
We hope all our readers agree and comply with these simple requirements.
Thank you all again for taking part in this discussion.
Regards, Shia News Team
For all the brothers raising the "Alyun wali-allah" issue, please remember that it is not required to be a "MUSLIM". It is required to become a "MOMIN".
The Holy Quran provides a clear distinction and the Holy Ahlul Bayt (a.s.) and Ameer-ul Momineen are leaders and guides for Momins.
If you remember Imam Ali's (a.s.) titles you will now the difference:
Therefore, the shahada to become a muslim only requires "La ihlaha Ilalllah
Muhammad ar-rasool allah".
Alyun Wali-allah is required to become a Momin.
When the scholars give thier verdicts it is specific to becomming a muslim and maintaining unity.
So please drop this issue about semantics and continue to discuss the real issues.
The brothers from Damascus have raised some interesting points, but do not understand the finer points of the argument.
During the occultation of our twelfth Imam (a.s.), we can not see him or meet him or receive direct instruction from him. Therefore, we turn to those who know the hadith of the Prophet (s.a.w.a) and his Ahlul Bayt (a.s.) for guidance and instruction in the Furooh-e-Deen. We have been instructed to do so by the Imam (a.s.) himself.
No Momin doubts that our Imam (a.s.) provides spiritual guidance, specifically concerning the Usul-e-Deen, and other matters even in Ghaib. Just read any commentary (tafsir) written by the scholars (allameh Tabatabai's al-Mizan) about Sura al Qadr and other sura's and you can not argue against this point. But he is not present amongst us to specifically teach us how to pray, perform hajj and fast.
Some brothers use hadith's quoted from the 4 Shiite hadith books to criticize traditional Islamic scholarship and the sciences that are used to deduct correct and incorrect hadith, but can not determine if the hadith being quoted by themselves is correct or one entered into the collection of traditions in error. Allamah Majlisi stated himself about Biharul Anwar that it is like an ocean, one must find the pearl in that ocean to be successful - (paraphrased).
Let me ask those who turn away from the religious scholars, how do you perform your prayers? Do you follow your parents? Family? Friends? Did you deduce it through research? Or did our Holy Imam (a.s.) give you special instruction?
1) If you followed any of the former, you performed taqlid of parents, family, friends or some scholar.
2) If you deduced it yourself through the study of the Quran and Hadith and you received proper training to do so, then you performed Ijtihad.
3) If you claim to have received special instruction from the Imam (a.s.), then you are a liar and will burn in hell according to the hadiths attributed to our the Masumeen (a.s.) and our Imam (a.s.) himself.
I follow the "righteous" mujtahids and have used hadith deemed to be correct by them in my arguments. The Ahkbari beliefs are very similar to the Wahabi beliefs concerning instruction from the Quran. Please study both sides of the issue before making a final decision. I pray to Allah (s.w.t.) to guide us on the right path, the path of virtue that the one's close to him follow and keep us from going astray.
A concerned brother
05 January, 2003
Aslaam Alaikum !
Regarding the current topic of discussion, I would like all readers to study two recent books written by Syed Baqar Nasar Zaidi from karachi 1) Kashful Aqaid 2) Kashful Haqaiq. Books are available in many bargahs in Karachi like Ancholi.
06 January, 2003
Mr.Mukhtar Hussain is quoting from historians who were from the time of the Ghulats and the traditions are all innovated. These people raised the Imams to the level of God. They invented these traditions in the names of the Imams. Imam Ali condemned them. I do not believe the Imams ever said the above things -- they were too humble and sublime.
06 January, 2003
My only question to those who opposes taqleed is that: can you resolve our day to day masail through clear Ahadees or Quran?? if so then can anyone tell me wether the cloning of humans is halal or haram as per ahadees or quran.
06 January, 2003
Response to my respected brothers & sisters at Lashkar-e- Imam-e- Zamana Team, Zainabia- Damishq- Syria.
Salaam my dear brothers & sisters in Islam,
What ever I write , I always think deeply what I write and the statement which you wanted me to ponder, I looked at the statement atleast twenty times and still find my statement true and correct.
What makes you think, that I said "the last Imam(as) cannot guide us ? Why are you puting words in to my mouth which I didn't utter ?!
I said, the Imams are not here but it's their written work & knowledge that exists and the only people who have studied the Holy Quran & the knowledge of Ahlalbayt(as) are the Ayatollahs untill the re-appearance of the twelfth Imam(as). What are the written work of the Ahlalbayt(as) ? Well, after the Holy Quran the most important book is Nahjul Balagha and other books which the rest of the Imams have left.
When you have a religious problem, who do you consult to ? Of couse you get advice from a proffesional !! Not everyone can get advice from the last Imam(as) and once he re-appears, it is the duty of all of mankind to obey the Imam(as).
Please think carefully and read carefully and hope you understand my words now my wonderful brothers & sisters in Islam and may Allah(swt) reward every action you people do.
Even if you, my dear brothers & sisters write back, I won't be responding again, couse it's just going to go around in circles.
Allah(swt) knows best.
07 January, 2003
Peace and Blessings to all brothers and sisters. Its quite surprising to see people coming up with references from the Quran and Ahaadeeth trying to negate the necessity of Marjaiyyah. How could one, while referring to books like Biharul Anwar, Man Laa yahdharuhul Faqeeh and so on, belie the concept of jurisdiction while the authors of these books were theselves marjaas?
I ask, how do you collect and verify the ahaadeeth, relate it with the Quran and then relay it on to the lay men without possessing the necessary skills taught by our Aimmahs like Imam Sadiq (a.s) themselves?
Is it possible to have everyone specializing in this same skill? As an example, can we have every human being as a doctor or engineer? Why is the concept of division of labour important in todays world? Does the doctor not require the services of a lawyer and vice versa? You do admit that humans are interdependent, we can't all be into the same field of specialization and hence the need for division, u do agree that there are vast numbers of ahaadeeth and you need to be very careful in classifying, interpreting and extracting laws from them, you do agree that this is in itself a field of specialization and hence not all of us can do that, why then do you not refer to those who have specialized in Islamic Law for matters of religion when you are more than ready to refer to a doctor, a lawyer or a engineer for their professional services?
Surah Tawbah says, [9:122] "And it does not beseem the believers that they should go forth all together; why should not then a company from every party from among them go forth that they may apply themselves to obtain understanding in religion, and that they may warn their people when they come back to them that they may be cautious?"
Why not obey the Quran and become a specialist yourself or refer to specialist if you yourself cant be one. It really is a simple matter of intellectual thought.
08 January, 2003
We are already too divided Please do something to promote unity please don't divide anymore.
Anti-Taqlid brigade came into light after the western and Zionist powers experienced the power of the Marja Imam Khomeini who by the Grace of Almighty brought the Islamic Revolution of Iran, gave a Fatwa against the cursed Salman Rushdie. He full heartedly Supported the Palestine Resistance.Motivated and supported the Hezbollah against the Zionist. and ALhamdolilah Ayatollah Khamenie too is following the same agenda as his predecessor. This has shaken the Zionist a lot. How come handful of Shian-e-Ali could ashamed the World Super Powers.
The Answer is simple the following a God fearing Marja who is following characteristic of Imam Hussein(a.s) and is not afraid of any Super Power in the world. So the Akhbaris are trying to divide the Shias and creating the confusion against the Marjas who are against the Super powers of the World. We Shias should unite and stand behind our Marjas who are against the Zionist regime and the so called Super powers who are shedding the blood of innocent Muslims.
The Prophet (saw) said, "The Muslim Ummah is like a body when one part is suffering the whole body is suffering."
Our responsibility is too assist the oppressed this is the Mission of Mohammed and Aale Mohammed (a.s). Those trying to divide the community by saying that the Shia should not do Taqlid are probably doing Taqlid themselves.
How do they perform their Salat. If a person is not doing Taqleed he should first Derive all the rules regarding salat from the Quran and the Hadees a Masomeen (a.s) and then he can perform Salat.
If he is performing salat as his parents do then he is doing Taqleed of his parents.
Saying is very easy doing it is not impossible but very difficult and not practical for most of the people.
May Allah help our brothers to work for Islam and Muslims and not against it.
08 January, 2003
My opinion on this matter is no, the mullahs should not get this much respect and we should not follow them as much as we are today. In the Quran, it tells us that whoever seeks knowledge, Allah (SWT) will bless them and help them, so why do we take the easy way and just allow the mullahs to do all the research? I think they're good for certain questions, but not where it leads to us completely following them. We have the Quran, Ahl Bayt, and Hadiths so we should do the research if we have a question.
08 January, 2003
Response to Sajjid's accusations against Imam Khomaini in Iran-Iraq War
While Imam Khomeini (r) didn't accepted cease-fire and 62 billion USD in 1982, Mr. Sajid accused him (and other top Ulama) as "Evils".
Mr. Sajid, I have following questions for you:
1) Muslims are not allowed to attack the neighbouring countries. But there are certain Conditions, which make it obligatory to make Jihad against them.
Do you know what these conditions are?
And do you think if these conditions were applicable on the situation of Iraq (i.e. Killing of innocent people... etc.)
And can you give us guarantee, if Imam had taken that money, people would not have labelled him as "Greedy Person" instead of being "Helper" of oppressive people?
2) Muawiyyah offered money to Mualla Ali (as) and many other of his governers to let him govern with peace.
What was the reply of Maulla Ali (as)
Can we in any case held Mualla Ali (as) responsible for the blood of thousands of people who were killed in wars?
Can we held Maulla Ali (as) responsible for the weakness of Islamic Government due to those wars?
Does the defeat of Muhammad bin Abi Bakr (r) in Egypt make him an "Evil Person"?
My humble opinion, Only Allah gives guidance to whom He (swt) wills.
If Allah wants us to fight, then we have to fight. Even if we loose it in the world, we are the winner. Insha-Allah.
Remember the examples of "Anbiya" (as) of Bani Israel, who were killed by the people.
Doesn't the head of Yahya (as) chopped off by the enemies? Does it mean he was on wrong? Or does it mean he was an "Evil Person"? (naudo-billah).
Mr. Sajjid, if you want to prove Imam Khomeini to be evil in that war, then show us which rule of Sharia he broke in it.
It is far better than accusing him on arguments, that are solely based on your conjecture.
10 January, 2003
To the concerned brother from Canada.
There are at least 30 verses in the Quran that clearly describes who a momin is, and not in one single place it says to be a momin one has to say Ali un wali Allah. Every Muslim believes that Hazrat Ali is the friend (wali) of God and respects him. But saying it in the adzaan is not part of the kalema.
As for the ayatollahs, who are they to proclaim themselves to be the representatives of the last Imam? If these marjas/ayatollahs are so "righteous" they would not be oppressing their own citizens and scholars.
This is in reply to a letter from concerned brother of Canada dated 5/1/03 regarding Ali un Wali Allah.
My concerned brother says that the scholars have omitted Ali un Wali Allha from Kalema, Azan and Namaz with a view to stand shoulder to shoulder with other muslims and create unity among them.
If sacrificing one's faith for the sake of unity may be considered as a valid principle, then I shall tell my concerned brother that before being a muslim, we are human beings first and unity among the human beings must come first.
In this case, according to the principle set forward by my concerned brother, it is incumbent upon us to forget about our faith because it is religion that has divided humanity into innumerable parts. So, being the preacher of this doctrine, my concerned brother should take the first step to say good bye to his religion for sake of unity among the human beings and then ask us to omit Ali un Wali Allah from our Kalema, Azan and Namaz for the sake of unity among muslims.
If, however, he cannot do so, he must admit that Kalma-e-Vilayat cannot be omitted in any case whatsoever because religion is a package deal i.e. accept it as a whole or reject it as a whole.
Ya Ali Madad
12 January, 2003
Aslamo 3alikum All,
The concept of Taqleed, was given by Allamah Hilli..What about the deeds and acts and prayers of the scholars and pious men/women who were born after the death of the 4th and the last assigned deputy of Imam Sahib-uz-Zaman, and died before Allamah Hilli?