That was 32-year-veteran Chief of Operations Daniel Nigro, who was in charge of the World Trade Center incident following Chief of Department Peter Ganci’s death in the collapse of the north tower. Silverstein was at home with his wife when he received the courtesy call from Chief Nigro in the afternoon.
Peter Ganci Daniel Nigro
“...telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire...”
That’s correct, as we will see in great detail below.
“...and I said, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.'”
Let’s use some logic. Was Silverstein saying,
“We’ve had such terrible loss of life that it would be wise to blow up my building,”
or was he saying,
“We’ve had such terrible loss of life that it would be wise to withdraw firefighters to prevent further loss of life”? Be honest, CTs. Which statement makes sense, and which is completely absurd?
Next, did Larry Silverstein, a real estate developer, have the world’s largest fire department at his beck and call? Of course not. Larry Silverstein had no say in how firefighting operations in New York City were conducted. He may have liked to think that Chief Nigro was calling him for a consultation, but that idea is laughable. It was a courtesy call.
“And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse."
Who made the decision to pull? They. The fire department. Not “Me,” not “We.” They. This is ridiculously obvious to anyone but a CT. Does the FDNY demolish buildings with explosives? No, they pull their people away from buildings that are too dangerous to be near. The “we” in “we watched the building collapse” is Silverstein and his wife. Silverstein was not at the WTC site.
Now That’s Denial!
Before I went to Ground Zero on 9/11 this year, I printed out Silverstein’s “pull it” statement from a conspiracist website. I know it by heart, but I thought the printout would come in handy. It wasn’t long before I heard a gentleman telling several camera crews about how Larry Silverstein ordered his building to be demolished. “I even know the quote verbatim,” he said, as I pulled out my printout in anticipation of him getting it wrong.
Sure enough, when he got to “they made that decision to pull,” he said “I made that decision to pull.” I corrected him. He disagreed. I asked him to read the quote. When he got to “they made that decision...” he said “we made that decision.” He said “we” while reading the quote I had given him. So we went through another round of corrections.
That encounter was the first of four times on 9/11/06 when a conspiracist at Ground Zero said “I” or “we” instead of “they” while reading the statement I had provided. All of these encounters were captured on videotape, but I believe that most of the camerapeople were in the conspiracist camp, so I don’t know if those tapes will ever be aired.
Later in the day I had another encounter during which I asked a woman to read the quote, but first I told her what had happened the previous four times. She got the “they” right, but then said, “What difference does it make if Silverstein made the decision or if the Fire Department made it? She didn’t take my explanation well.
What Really Happened at WTC building 7 on 9/11?
Let’s take a look at a summary of the events at WTC 7 on 9/11, according to the NIST report.
Essential Reading: NIST NCSTAR 1-8 Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster: The Emergency Response Operations http://tinyurl.com/zemur Excerpt: Summary of World Trade Center Building 7 Emergency Response • The building had sustained damage from debris falling into the building, and they were not sure about the structural stability of the building.
• The building had large fires burning on at least six floors. Any one of these six fires would have been considered a large incident during normal FDNY operations.
• There was no water immediately available for fighting the fires.
• They didn’t have equipment, hose, standpipe kits, tools, and enough handie talkies for conducting operations inside the building.
At approximately, 2:30 p.m., FDNY officers decided to completely abandon WTC 7, and the final order was given to evacuate the site around the building. The order terminated the ongoing rescue operations at WTC 6 and on the rubble pile of WTC 1. Firefighters and other emergency responders were withdrawn from the WTC 7 area, and the building continued to burn. At approximately 5:20 p.m., some three hours after WTC 7 was abandoned the building experienced a catastrophic failure and collapsed.
Here’s a much-reprinted quote from FDNY Chief of Operations Daniel Nigro:
The biggest decision we had to make was to clear the area and create a collapse zone around the severely damaged [WTC 7] building. A number of fire officers and companies assessed the damage to the building. The appraisals indicated that the building’s integrity was in serious doubt. [Fire Engineering magazine, 10/2002]
In another interview, Chief Nigro says,
The most important operational decision to be made that afternoon was [that] the collapse [Of the WTC towers] had damaged 7 World Trade Center, which is about a 50 story building, at Vesey between West Broadway and Washington Street. It had very heavy fire on many floors and I ordered the evacuation of an area sufficient around to protect our members, so we had to give up some rescue operations that were going on at the time and back the people away far enough so that if 7 World Trade did collapse, we [wouldn't] lose any more people. We continued to operate on what we could from that distance and approximately an hour and a half after that order was [given], at 5:30 in the afternoon, 7 World Trade Center collapsed completely. http://tinyurl.com/g8c6y
That’s certainly straightforward. Building 7 was severely damaged and had severe, uncontrollable fires, and the FDNY withdrew its firefighters to protect their safety.
At the beginning of this paper I introduced the group NY911truth, which me and some stalwart friends confront on Saturdays at Ground Zero. In my first appearance there, in June or July, 2006, the first thing the group’s leader Les Jamieson said to me was, “We should have a debate.” I’m sure he didn’t know then that I knew far more of the facts of 9/11 than he, although I had only been looking into the CT claims for three months and he had been doing so since November, 2001. We did have an impromptu mini-debate before the video camera of documentarian Fletcher Holmes. The subject was the collapse of WTC 7, which Jamieson believes is one of the best pieces of evidence in favor of the “inside job” theory.
I reminded Jamieson that all the firefighters on the scene reported massive damage and raging, uncontrolled fires, and that the chiefs, specifically Chief Nigro, gave the order to withdraw the firefighters from the area long before the building collapsed. He replied that perhaps they had been ordered to withdraw by someone higher up, such as Nicholas Scoppetta, the FDNY Commissioner, who presumably got his orders from someone who was in on the plot.
That made me very angry. It was the first time I had heard someone blame the FDNY for the collapse of WTC 7. Since then, I’ve heard at least three other members of Jamieson’s organization make the same claim while standing on the ground where so many heroes died.
Let’s keep in mind what it would mean (only as far as the FDNY’s involvement is concerned) if
Jamieson was correct:
The top people in the FDNY were so corrupt that they called off a search for hundreds of fallen firefighters in order to participate in a crime.
The FDNY Chiefs who claim to have made an agonizing decision to stop rescue operations in the area around WTC 7, based on the desire to save lives, are lying.
All the people on the scene who claim to have seen massive damage and uncontrolled fires on many floors at building 7, and who claim that they believed the building would collapse (we’ll read their reports later), were coerced into inventing those stories in order to cover up the crime of deliberate demolition of a skyscraper.
The massive amount of smoke seen billowing from nearly every floor on WTC 7’s south side did not indicate massive fires.
None of the 16,000 uniformed or civilian members of the FDNY, or anyone else who was involved in this huge conspiracy, has come forward about these issues in the past 5 years.
Les Jamieson, leader of NY 911 Truth
In addition to making brief appearances in Abby Scott and Ray Rivera’s tragicomic video, Jamieson has appeared twice on the NYC-area television show Hardfire, where his arguments were eviscerated by host Ron Wieck. Watch it here http://tinyurl.com/ellal and here http://tinyurl.com/gnroy.
“Of Course They’re Lies!”
Following is a transcription of an audio recording I made at Ground Zero on September 16, 2006. Bold type indicates shouting. The participants are me, Les Jamieson, and a particularly volatile and ignorant member of his organization. He’s a regular on Saturdays but I don’t know his name. We call him “Fishing Hat Man.”
Fishing Hat Man, member of NY 911 Truth
A substantial crowd had gathered. First, I read the Daniel Nigro quote above to Mr. Jamieson. Here it is again. It bears repeating:
“The biggest decision we had to make was to clear the area and create a collapse zone around the severely damaged building. A number of fire officers and companies assessed the damage to the building. The appraisals indicated that the building’s integrity was in serious doubt.”
Me, to Jamieson: Chief of Operations, right here, who gave the order to start clearing this area three hours beforehand. And you’re saying that Larry Silverstein gave that order? Why?
I pull out a sheaf of quotes from FDNY eyewitnesses that detail the fire, damage, and suspected collapse of building 7.
Me: I’ve got page after page corroborating that. Page after page corroborating the damage, page after page corroborating that he gave the order, page after page saying that they did pull the men out starting at about 3 o’clock. But you blame Larry Silverstein. Why?
Fishing Hat Man, interrupting: BECAUSE HE SAID “PULL THE BUILDING!”
Me: Oh, did he?
FHM: PULL is the operative word! You say “they” was the operative word? IT WAS PULL. P-U-L-L!
I hand him the printout of Silverstein’s statement.
Me: Here, read this to the people. Are you afraid to? Let’s see if you get it right. On 9/11, I gave this quote to four different people of your persuasion, and every single one of them said, when they were reading it, said “He” decided to pull. Now you read it. See what it says.
FHM: We went through this before. This is a reprise of a previous episode. [True: from about an hour earlier!] He asked me to read this paragraph. I’ll read the paragraph, and let’s see if it’s going to register as funny, okay? I read the whole paragraph, and he says to me “read the last sentence.” I say, “Okay, ‘And they made that decision to pull.’ “
Me: And who was “they?”
FHM: No, wait a minute! Here’s the punch line. I say to him, “What’s the operative word here?” He says to me “They.” NO. IT’S PULL. P-U-L-L!
Me: Okay, I’ve got 15 different quotes here where fire department– (FHM starts to walk away) You gonna stand here and listen? –Where Fire Department people use the word “pull,” meaning pull their people out.
FHM:You don’t even understand English grammar! He said “IT!” “IT!”
Me: Yeah, the operations. The firefighting operations. I don’t understand English grammar?
Jamieson: People were pulled out at 11:30, weren’t they?
Me: No, sir, they weren’t. As you know – because I’m sure you’ve read the quotes – it started at about 2:30, the pullout. Before that they were trying to rescue their people who were under the rubble here.
Jamieson: I have 11:30. So even if it’s 2:30, why are they saying to pull it at 5:20?
Me: When did the conversation with Silverstein happen? Hours beforehand.
Me: Yes, sir. You’re saying that Chief Daniel Nigro is lying? You’re saying the Fire Department is lying?
Jamieson: Silverstein is lying, maybe. Could that be?
Me: About what? His story corroborates perfectly with what the Fire Department says.
Reminder: Les Jamieson is the leader of one of the major 9/11 “Truth” organizations, and he claims to have been investigating these matters since 2001. Also, Jamieson was listening attentively 30 seconds earlier when FHM read “And they made that decision to pull.”
Me: No, sir. He says “They made that decision to pull.” Who’s “they?” He’s on the phone with the Fire Department.
Me: So you’re saying the Fire Department’s lying, when they’re saying that they made the decision?
Jamieson: How does the Fire Department have the ability to pull?
Me: To pull? To pull their men out. (I shake my sheaf of quotes) Fifteen different times they use the quote “pull,” meaning pull their men away from the building–
FHM:NO! THEY SAID PULL IT!
Me: –and thank God they did, because no one was killed when building 7 collapsed.
Me: Was that a good decision or not?
Unidentified Truther:PULL IT!
Me: And they did that three hours before the building collapsed.
Jamieson: What about–
Me: I’m asking you a question. Is the Fire Department lying? You’re saying Larry Silverstein gave the order. I have page after page of quotes. Are they lying?
FHM:This is total obfuscation! Total obfuscation! What difference does it make if the time is plus or minus two hours? He said “Pull the building! Pull the building!”
Jamieson: PULL THE BUILDING! And it fell straight down! Not south!
FHM:PULL IT! I-T!
Me (reading from FDNY quotes): Fire Department Chief Daniel Nigro: “The biggest decision we had to make–“
FHM:HE’S OBFUSCATING! WITH TOTAL BULLSHIT!
Me: “–was to create a collapse zone around the severely damaged building. A number of fire officers and companies assessed the damage to the building. The appraisals indicated that the building’s integrity was in serious doubt.”
How about this: “There had to be a hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors. Debris was falling down on the building and it didn’t look good. But they had a hose line operating. Like I said, it was hitting the sidewalk across the street, but eventually they pulled back too.”
And this: “The building didn’t look good. I was figuring probably the standpipe systems were shot. There was no hydrant pressure. I wasn’t really keen on the idea. Then this other officer I’m standing next to said, that building doesn’t look straight. So I’m standing there. I’m looking at the building. It didn’t look right, but, well, we’ll go in, we’ll see.
So we gathered up rollups and most of us had masks at that time. We headed toward 7. And just around we were about a hundred yards away and Butch Brandeis came running up. He said forget it, nobody’s going into 7, there’s creaking, there are noises coming out of there, so we just stopped.”
Here’s another: “They told us to get out of there because they were worried about 7 World Trade Center, which is right behind it, coming down. ... Finally they pulled us out.”
Here’s another: “Seven World Trade was burning from the ground to the ceiling, fully involved.“
Here’s another: “There was a huge gaping hole and it was scattered through there. It was a huge hole. I would say it was probably a third of it, right in the middle of it.”
Me: Yeah, it’s a lie? These are all lies the Fire Department is telling? I’m recording this, by the way.
FHM: OF COURSE THEY’RE LIES! TOTAL FABRICATIONS! TOTAL FABRICATIONS!
FHM walks away, shaking his head. Jamieson makes no objection to his statements. Please let Les Jamieson know what you think about what he and his organization’s members say at Ground Zero. His 9/11-related email address is firstname.lastname@example.org
Jason Bermas of Loose Change Disparages the FDNY at Ground Zero
I have never encountered anyone in any sphere of endeavor as thoroughly misinformed as Jason Bermas, another “9/11 Truth Movement” leader, the most defiantly outspoken of Loose Change’s three creators, and its chief “researcher.” On the subject of 9/11, he seems to be completely incapable of getting anything right. Bermas has apparently spent a lot of time watching Alex Jones videos. In my compilation Loose Change Creators Speak, Bermas mentions 18 conspiracy theories in a single interview, not because he’s reciting a list of them, but because that’s the way he talks. The following is a bit of an “aside,” but I think it’s important to show just how twisted the thinking of the leaders of the “9/11 Truth Movement” can be. Here is a sample of Bermas’ lunacy (pun intended):
“I contend that we may have been to the Moon, not with rocket technology, but with something else and it's secret. Definitely not the Apollo landings – they're a joke.”
“I really do feel like the evidence is there that these guys [U.S. political and religious leaders] are in the occult.”
On politician John Kerry: “This guy practices the occult. He had to in order to get into Skull & Bones [the not-so-secret Yale University club whose membership rolls are published each year by the school]. What ELSE is he capable of?”
Bermas: “These guys in America are able to become billionaires, but they're not the multi-trillionaires that are in countries, basically with a free license to print money. So their power [the Americans' power] can only go so far.”
Host: “So you see it [The people behind the 9/11 attacks] as more of a European-type thing?”
Bermas: “Absolutely. I mean when you look at how bizarre some of these rituals are, and where these things come from...Helmut Schmidt, for instance, former German Chancellor, talks about all the things he used to do, all these Germanic death cults, and he talks about, you know, Bohemian Grove being a sex event and loving the rituals there, it's suspicious to me, man! I mean, I can see that with my own eyes. [I would like to read his eyewitness accounts! –MR] ...You look at things like the Montauk Project, and Boys' Town, and they definitely used, you know, drug addicts, sexual deviants. It's mind control! It's absolute mind control.”
“There was a report out in the past couple of days [on Alex Jones’ website, of course]that the government has been actually recruiting pastors and ministers to go around and say, you know, if something like the bird flu hits, it'll be good to go with, like, FEMA into camps and all these other federally-regulated areas, and they're actually being paid to say this stuff. And taking inoculations, and that is SCARY!”
“Unfortunately, in this country if there is another major event, and if it is incrementalized [CTs love that word, although it is meaningless in this context] and larger than the last one, they could declare martial law at any moment, and have forced inoculations, and who's to say what they put in your body?”
“Believe it or not, TIVO was working on a brain chip, so that with your TIVO box there it would record what you want, when you want it, and it will base it on your brain patterns.”
If Bermas and other 9/11 “Truth” leaders are so obviously divorced from reality, why am I spending my time doing this? Why not leave them alone to bark at the moon and be laughed at by sensible people?
Answer: because they have been effective at spreading their message. Millions and millions of people have viewed at least part of Loose Change, which is freely available on the internet. I get several emails a week thanking me for my Loose Change Viewer Guide (a major revision – with twice the information and better sourcing – is in the works), because for a time they had bought Loose Change’s propaganda. In August, that guide, which I don’t advertise, had a peak viewer ship of over 30,000 people in one day. That means many, many more people are out there with this stuff rattling around in their heads. Now I understand the meaning of “viral video.”
Even people who aren’t taken in by the more extreme claims of the 9/11 Denier Movement can find themselves thinking that there must be some evidence of US government involvement in the attacks, based on the sheer volume of conspiracist claims. I have yet to see any such evidence, and it’s not for lack of trying.
Back to Jason Bermas at Ground Zero.
As mentioned above, the purpose of the protest at Ground Zero on 9/11/06 was to get the attention of the mainstream media. Two days earlier, on 9/09/06, the Loose Change guys and Alex Jones visited Ground Zero. Their cameramen filmed the visit. You can watch it here: http://tinyurl.com/onbrq. It begins with a preamble by Jason Bermas:
You can just imagine just the flurry of people who are going to be here in memoriam of all those that died on September 11th. Really, we’re gearing up, we’re giving out 10,000 DVDs, we’ve got 1,100 shirts. We’re really gonna make our presence known. Finally the mainstream media is going to have to stop attacking us and start reporting on us fairly, and that’s really our goal.*
Bermas then strolls past, and comments on, the large bronze relief of 9/11 firefighting operations, which is on the side of Firehouse 10, across Liberty Street from the World Trade Center.
Jason Bermas outside Firehouse 10. He forgot.
At 40:33 in the same video, speaking at Ground Zero on the same day, Bermas expresses his opinion of the low character of FDNY firefighters, in answer to a question by Abby Scott:
“The firefighters ARE paid off.”
Remember, this video is promoted by the creators of Loose Change. They’re proud of it. Please let Mr. Bermas know what you think about his behavior at Ground Zero: email@example.com
*Did the protest achieve its goal of garnering massive media attention? Dylan Avery, writer and director of Loose Change:
And shame on the mainstream media in general for participating in what can only be described as a media blackout. Those that did mention it marginalized it dramatically.
We are not conspiracy theorists by any stretch.
We are a growing body of concerned Americans who have both investigated the events and experienced them first-hand, and we are absolutely convinced that our government is hiding the truth from us, whatever the truth may be.
Dylan Avery, October 3: “I find it extremely telling that this article from Mexico gives us more coverage [of 9/11] than anything we experienced from American Mainstream Media combined.” http://loosechange911.blogspot.com/
I believe Mr. Avery is complaining about the lack of positive mainstream media coverage, not about the lack of coverage such as that hilariously dished out by Matt Taibbi of Rolling Stone on Sept. 26:
I challenge a 9/11 Truth leader like Loose Change writer Dylan Avery to come up with a detailed, complete summary of the alleged plot -- not the bits and pieces, but the whole story, put together -- that would not make any fifth grader anywhere burst out in convulsive laughter. http://tinyurl.com/oagtw
“Oh, Massive Evidence! We Have Total Evidence!”
Alex Jones Vilifies the FDNY and Larry Silverstein at Ground Zero
The author having words with conspiracist Alex Jones at Ground Zero. Watch Jones accuse the FDNY of following orders to pull back so that building 7 can be “blown,” then watch him rant, cheerlead, move goalposts, and otherwise jump through hoops to avoid answering simple questions about that topic, from 26:30 to 48:40 in the video: http://tinyurl.com/onbrq. This section also features The Jason Bermas/Abby Scott conversation noted above. It’s worth watching the segment immediately following, in which a “Truther” displays his total ignorance of why the towers collapsed. Keep in mind that this video was shot by, and is promoted by, leading members of the “9/11 Truth Movement!”
We’ll pick up the video at 28:33. It’s Jones and me.
AJ I’ve only seen a little bit of your work, but I’m just gonna tell you this: we’re not gonna be defeated, we’re gonna stop government-sponsored terror!
MR You can talk all you want. That doesn’t make it true.
AJ We’re gonna defeat government-sponsored terror!
MR Facts are what make something true.
AJ LIKE BUILDING SEVEN EXPLODES! THAT’S WHY FACTS CANNOT BE DEFEATED!
MR Oh, really? Ha-ha. That’s funny. Where’s your evidence?
AJ Oh, massive evidence! We have total evidence!
MR Why did they evacuate the area three hours beforehand?
AJ Larry Silverstein says he pulled the building.
Reminder: Alex Jones a major 9/11 “Truth Movement” leader, and he claims to have been investigating these matters since 2001. MR No. No, Larry Silverstein says they decided to pull. They. (pointing to the fire trucks parked down the block) Are they in on it?
MR No you don’t. He said they decided to pull the building and then we watched it come down.
[Ha! I screwed up there and said “pull the building.” That’s what I get for listening to the CTs blow that line every time!]
(Crosstalk: see below)
MR Who made the decision? “They.”
MR He said “We watched.” I’ll bet you a six-pack of beer, my friend. (We shake. When I later tried to claim my beer money, he claimed it was only for a beer. Can’t these people ever tell the truth?)
The little guy in black, wearing sunglasses, is Tom Foti, a regular on Saturdays at Ground Zero. He’s the most despicable creep I’ve met in years, but we’ll wait to see if the video from 9/11 appears in which I explain why that’s so. In the present video, while Alex Jones falsely accuses me of introducing straw man arguments, Tom Foti actually introduces straw man arguments, by shouting them out while I’m trying to talk to Jones and his cameraman. Here Foti claims that I said there were no cameras at the Pentagon. Never mind that he’s trying to bail Jones out by changing the subject, I’ve never said anything like that. Foti is referring to an email I sent to him and many others in August, which quotes a Pentagon employee as follows:
“Why isn't there more video? Without telling too much of what I know of Pentagon security, you would be surprised how few cameras there are outside the building. Humans actively patrolling a building's perimeter are a tad more effective than dozens of monitors which may or may not be watched at any given moment. Given the limited number of entrances to the facility (all highly controlled areas), cameras are generally only needed in high traffic areas like vehicle control points (such as the one this video came from).”
Tom Foti turns that into “Mark Roberts says there are no cameras at the Pentagon.” He’s lying, which is par for his course. The saddest thing is – and this happens all the time with Foti – I had corrected him about this misconception at Ground Zero a week or two earlier. Later, Foti brings up another straw man. He says I claim that building 7 collapsed in 18 seconds. No, that’s the time of the seismic rumbling recorded by Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory when WTC 7 collapsed, which may indicate internal collapses before the external collapse becomes visible. LDEO says that is not to be taken as conclusive. The time I quote for the visible collapse of WTC 7 is at least 13.5 seconds from the start of the fall of the east mechanical penthouse. This is easily checked by reviewing my internet forum posts from before I met Foti. The CTs don’t count the east penthouse as part of building 7’s collapse, although that structure covers an area equal to four apartment buildings on my block, and was caused by collapses on the lower floors. Later in this paper we’ll see a video that shows this collapse clearly. To justify their fabricated time of 6.5 seconds, the CTs show video clips of building 7 that do not show the roof or that are edited to omit the start of the collapse.
AJ Listen, we’re gonna defeat the New World Order, don’t worry.
MR The New World Order, sir? Tell me more about building 7. Why did they evacuate–
AJ –Do you believe, hold on, hold on. (changing the subject) Do you believe they found WMDs in Iraq?
MR Answer the damn question! You brought it up!
MR Why did they evacuate this area three hours beforehand? Why did every fireman who was here say, “The building’s about to collapse?”
AJ Because they told the firemen– you’re not letting me talk.
MR Why was it making noises? Why was it leaning?
AJ See, he won’t let me talk.
MR There you go. Now you can talk.
AJ They told them to get out because they were gonna blow it!
MR So the Fire Department’s in on it?
AJ No, they were told to get out.
MR Why don’t you tell the Fire Department. The New York City Fire Department. They’re right there (pointing).
AJ (To the crowd, changing the subject again) Oh, I guess there wasn’t poisonous dust, either, like they said.
MR They’re right there. Tell them they were in on it. You just said they were in on it.
AJ No, I didn’t say, I said they were told to, they were told to pull out.
Stop the presses! That’s the first “9/11 Truth” leader I’ve seen get the “pull” part right. Congratulations, Alex!
MR Oh, and they just obeyed because they were gonna blow up the building?
AJ No, because they were given orders!
MR Who? Who gave them orders?
AJ They don’t ask questions. They don’t say, “Port Authority, why are we supposed to pull out?”
MR Chief Daniel Nigro, who was in command here, gave the orders. Are you gonna say he’s a liar?
AJ See, guys, this is all “straw man.” We never said the firemen were involved. He just claimed we said it. He’s a liar! That’s what liars do. They build straw men.
MR Who gave the order? Chief Daniel Nigro. You want to see the order? (I had the quote with me)
AJ Yes, he’s told to pull them. It doesn’t mean he’s involved. He’s given an order.
MR Who told him? Where’s your evidence? Where’s your evidence?
AJ We – the firemen reported that they heard and saw explosions going off in all these buildings.
MR Name one explosion they heard going off there (pointing to building 7). You know there were demolitions experts here? (Inaudible)
AJ See, folks, this is straw men. He isn’t having a real debate.
Good timing Alex. Now Tom Foti pipes in with his second straw man argument.
AJ There’s no point talking to him. It’s all straw men. Just like you heard it: he claimed we blamed the firemen. We never said that. He just made it up.
MR Oh, they just followed orders to pull out?
MR They didn’t give the orders, they followed the orders? They didn’t give the orders? You’re saying the Fire Department did not give the order to pull out?
AJ No, they were given an order. They followed the order.
MR By whom? By whom?
AJ Oh, it’s admitted! The Port Authority...Giuliani.
Let’s keep in mind what Jones is saying. He’s saying that Larry Silverstein, the Port Authority, and Rudy Giuliani were ultimately in charge of firefighting operations at the WTC, not the FDNY. These people (and this organization: note that Jones doesn’t say who in the Port Authority was involved) planned to demolish WTC 7 with explosives. Therefore, when the Chiefs on the scene say that their inspection of the building led them to withdraw their men to keep them alive, they’re lying. Jones says the FDNY pulled away from building 7 because they were ordered to, not because they determined that damage and fires in the building made it unsafe. Therefore all the eyewitness accounts from the FDNY (which we will see shortly) that say otherwise, are wrong. And the agonizing decision to cease rescue operations in the area was not the FDNY’s decision. And all this has been covered up by everyone involved. Heinous crimes, massive deception. The conspirators, at minimum: Silverstein, the Port of New York and New Jersey Authority (which lost 40 employees on 9/11), Rudy
Giuliani, and the FDNY, which lost 343 men.
MR Who admitted it?
AJ I’ve got the newspaper articles.
MR No you don’t. (to crowd) See, look at this (evasion?). (To Jones) You don’t know what the hell you’re talking about! You’re lying to people at Ground Zero.
AJ See, all he does is sit here and act confident. He blamed us for saying the firefighters were in on it.
MR I’m asking where your facts are. Where are they? You’re saying an order was given. Who gave it? Tell me. Give me the name. Right now. With the cameras here. Who? Who did it?
AJ See, this is how the spin works. This is a lawyer technique. Number one, he doesn’t let me talk.
MR I’m a tour guide, I’m not a lawyer! You can’t take on a tour guide from New York City?
AJ No, I, I said you’re using a lawyer, lawyer tactic.
MR Yeah, facts. Give me facts. Give me evidence, give me facts. How about that?
AJ He’s claiming I blame firefighters. He’s claiming (inaudible)
MR Sure you do.
AJ And none of it’s true.
MR You’re saying they didn’t give the order to pull out. You’re saying they didn’t survey the building, and determine it was too damaged to stand, not safe to be in? You’re saying that? You’re saying the Fire Department did that.
AJ No modern building had ever fallen–
MR Yes or no? Are you saying that the Fire Department did not survey the building?
AJ See I just brought a question up. He doesn’t answer it.
MR Did you say the Fire Department did not survey the building?
AJ See, he won’t even let me answer.
MR Did you say the Fire Department did not survey the building?
AJ He just repeats the same thing over and over again.
MR Did you? Yes or no?
AJ (Shouting) HEY FOLKS, HOW MANY OF YOU KNOW 9/11’s AN INSIDE JOB?
About 4 people, and mainly Tom Foti, shout YEAH!
AJ That’s right, it’s an inside job, brother!
MR (To crowd) This guy’s a well-known radio personality. He’s got lots of videos out there. He does not even know the basics. All he can do is change the subject.
AJ I know all the basics.
MR All he can do is change the subject.
AJ He set the subject, he made up that we blame the firefighters.
MR You brought up this building. You said it was blown up! Where’s your evidence?
AJ He’s lying again. See, that’s what they do. [Lying? Allow me to refer you to this AJ quote above: “They told them to get out because they were gonna blow it!”]
MR Where’s your evidence? What I do is ask for evidence, sir.
AJ See, I could make up a claim that he said George Bush did it....(more straw man accusations)
Cameraman who owes me a six-pack Do you know what a squib mark is?
MR Do you know what air pressure is?
AJ (Straw man, etc.)
MR All I ask for is your evidence.
And on and on. That’s the pathetic Alex Jones, the hero of the “Truth Movement,” at Ground Zero. Accusing people of horrible crimes without a shred of evidence.
After all that backpedaling and evading by Jones, and all his protests about my “straw man argument” about the Fire Department, minutes later, 30 feet away:
“The firefighters ARE paid off.”
A review of the indignation of Alex Jones at Ground Zero:
“See, guys, this is all ‘straw man.’ We never said the firemen were involved. He just claimed we said it. He’s a liar! That’s what liars do. They build straw men.” [“We?”]
“Just like you heard it: he claimed we blamed the firemen. We never said that. He just made it up.”
“He blamed us for saying the firefighters were in on it.”
“He’s claiming I blame firefighters. ...And none of it’s true.”
“He set the subject, he made up that we blame the firefighters.”
“See, I could make up a claim that he said George Bush did it....”
A review of Alex Jones’ active websites, October, 2006.
Alex Jones’ PrisonPlanet.com: Silverstein, FDNY Decided to “Pull WTC 7”
Alex Jones’ Infowars.com:
“World Trade Center Imploded by Silverstein, FDNY And Others”
Could “Truth Movement” leader Alex Jones be any more dishonest?
Here’s the story from the PrisonPlanet.com article that headlines the page above, with my comments.
Professional Demolition of World Trade Center Building 7 False. See below.
Larry Silverstein, the owner of the WTC complex, admitted on a September 2002 PBS documentary, ‘America Rebuilds’ that he and the NYFD decided to ‘pull’ WTC 7 on the day of the attack. False, as we’ve already seen. The word ‘pull’ is industry jargon for taking a building down with explosives. False. See below.
We have attempted to call Larry Silverstein’s office on several occasions. Silverstein has never issued a retraction for his comments. Because he never said anything wrong.
Photos taken moments before the collapse of WTC 7 show small office fires on just two floors. Wait until we see the south side of the building at the same time....
Firefighters were told to move away from the building moments before it collapsed. False. See below.
In February of 2002 Silverstein Properties won $861 million from Industrial Risk Insurers to rebuild on the site of WTC 7. Silverstein Properties’ estimated investment in WTC 7 was $386 million. So: This building’s collapse resulted in a profit of about $500 million! A motive is stated! Unfortunately for Jones, it’s hilariously false. See section 3.
Jason Bermas certainly learned from a master, and the lyingest man east of the Pecos isn’t through yet.
Didn’t they “Pull” WTC building 6 with explosives?
Alex Jones says they did, on the Infowars.com page that’s linked above:
We know that the term 'pull it' means to bring the building down by means of explosives because in the same documentary (America Rebuilds) a cleanup worker (in December 2001) refers to the demolition of WTC Building 6 when he says,"...we're getting ready to pull building six."
We are directed to this brief video clip: http://www.infowars.com/Video/911/pull-it2_lo.wmv
Yes, that worker certainly does say they’re getting ready to “pull” building six. Then we have a quote from Luis Mendes, from the NYC Department of Design and Construction:
“We had to be very careful about how we demolished building 6. We were worried about building 6 coming down and damaging the slurry walls, so we wanted that particular building to fall within a certain area.”
Interesting. They needed to be sure that building 6 came down in a “controlled” way. But wait a second: the video clip that Alex Jones presents – the clip that’s shown on all the conspiracist websites –ends abruptly at this point. Huh? Where’s the money shot? Why’d they cut it there?
Because the following scene shows how building 6 was “pulled”: with cables attached to the hydraulic arms of four excavators, not with explosive charges.
“We’ve got the cables attached in four different locations going up. Now they’re pulling the building to the north. It’s not every day you try to pull down a eight story building with cables.”
Narrator Kevin Spacey: “The use of explosives to demolish World Trade Centers 4, 5 and 6 was rejected for fear workers would risk their lives entering buildings to set the charges.”
A final, disgraceful lie from Alex Jones
Alex Jones’ Prison Planet.com, September 11, 2006
Documentary film maker and radio host Alex Jones, coordinating today's 9/11 truth movement events in downtown New York City, says that the atmosphere around ground zero has dramatically changed, with the majority of firefighters and police officers now sympathetic to the claim that 9/11 was an inside job.
Mark Roberts to Alex Jones at Ground Zero, September 11, 2006: “Let’s go, Mr. Jones. You and me are going to (FDNY) Ten House, and you can tell them what you told me the other day. Are you man enough? Or are you a coward?”
Jones: “I’m not talking to you.”
We finally take our leave of this hero of the “Truth Movement.”
Ground Zero, September 11, 2006
Is “Pull” Used by Demolitions Professionals to Mean
“Demolish a Structure With Explosives?”
Brent Blanchard, a demolitions expert with Protec, and contributor to ImplosionWorld.com, weighs in with his expert opinion:
We have never once heard the term 'pull it' being used to refer to the explosive demolition of a building, and neither has any blast team we've spoken with. The term is used in conventional demolition circles, to describe the specific activity of attaching long cables to a pre-weakened building and maneuvering heavy equipment (excavators, bulldozers etc) to 'pull' the frame of the structure over onto its side for further dismantlement. This author and our research team were on site when workers pulled over the six story remains of WTC6 in late fall 2001, however we can say with certainty that a similar operation would have been logistically impossible at Ground Zero on 9/11, physically impossible for a building the size of WTC7, and the structure did not collapse in that manner anyway.
In the weeks following 9/11, several Protec building inspectors and staff photographers, including this author, were contracted by demolition teams to document the deconstruction and debris removal processes at Ground Zero. These processes included the mechanical pull-down of the remains of the U.S. Customs Building (WTC 6) and various other activities occurring simultaneously throughout the site. http://tinyurl.com/z6zyc
From the Popular Mechanics book Debunking 9/11 Myths: Why Conspiracy Theories Can't Stand Up to the Factshttp://tinyurl.com/pkeqq
Four demolition and engineering experts tell Popular Mechanics that pull it is not slang for controlled demolition. "I've never heard of it," says Jon Magnusson of Magnusson Klemencic Associates.
Ron Dokell, retired president of Olshan Demolishing Company, says the same thing. Mark Loizeaux of Controlled Demolition, Inc. adds that the only way he can imagine the term being used is in reference to a process where the legs of a structure are precut and attached to cables, and then large machines are used to literally pull the building to the ground.
Is “Pull” Ever Used to Mean “Withdraw Firefighters from Danger?”
It certainly was used that way on 9/11. Again and again, “pull” is how firefighters and EMTs describe the afternoon withdrawal from the area in and around WTC 7. In the accounts I’ve read, excluding Larry Silverstein’s, “pull” is used 26 times to refer to the withdrawal of WTC firefighting operations. 23 of those references are about WTC 7. Add Silverstein’s statement and we’ve got 28 references to “pull” meaning “withdraw.” Details are in the appendix. My survey was by no means exhaustive.
Here’s a summary of the first-person accounts I’ve read:
People who specifically mention the severity of the WTC 7 fires 35
People who specifically mention the extensive damage to WTC 7 25
People who mention the FDNY order to withdraw from WTC 7 area 92
Number of times “Pull” is used to mean “withdraw rescuers” 28
Number of people who use “Pull” to mean “withdraw rescuers” 16
Other witnesses who say the collapse of WTC 7 was expected 28
Doubters, please read the following accounts. Names in bold are those whom the accounts indicate gave orders to withdraw from the area around WTC 7.
7 World Trade Center was roaring. I remember being pulled off the pile like just before. It wasn't just before. It was probably an hour before 7 came down. –Firefighter Kevin Howe
Hayden: By now, this is going on into the afternoon, and we were concerned about additional collapse, not only of the Marriott, because there was a good portion of the Marriott still standing, but also we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o’clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o’clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse.
Firehouse Magazine: Was there heavy fire in there right away?
Hayden: No, not right away, and that’s probably why it stood for so long because it took a while for that fire to develop. It was a heavy body of fire in there and then we didn’t make any attempt to fight it. That was just one of those wars we were just going to lose. We were concerned about the collapse of a 47-story building there. We were worried about additional collapse there of what was remaining standing of the towers and the Marriott, so we started pulling the people back after a couple of hours of surface removal and searches along the surface of the debris. We started to pull guys back because we were concerned for their safety.
Firehouse: Chief Nigro said they made a collapse zone and wanted everybody away from number 7— did you have to get all of those people out?
Hayden: Yeah, we had to pull everybody back. It was very difficult. We had to be very forceful in getting the guys out. They didn’t want to come out. There were guys going into areas that I wasn’t even really comfortable with, because of the possibility of secondary collapses. We didn’t know how stable any of this area was. We pulled everybody back probably by 3 or 3:30 in the afternoon. We said, this building is going to come down, get back. It came down about 5 o’clock or so, but we had everybody backed away by then. –Deputy Chief Peter Hayden http://tinyurl.com/zwtrs
There was a big discussion going on at that point about pulling all of our units out of 7 World Trade Center. Chief Nigro didn't feel it was worth taking the slightest chance of somebody else getting injured. So at that point we made a decision to take all of our units out of 7 World Trade Center because there was a potential for collapse.
Q. It was on fire, correct, Captain?
A. Yes, it was on fire at that time. Then they said it suffered some form of structural damage. These things were going on at the same time. The fact that we thought we found Ganci and Feehan and his place at 7 World Trade Center. Made the decision to back everybody away, took all the units and moved them all the way back toward North End Avenue, which is as far I guess west as you could get on Vesey Street, to keep them out of the way. –Captain Ray Goldbach
So we go there and on the north and east side of 7 it didn’t look like there was any damage at all, but then you looked on the south side of 7 there had to be a hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors. Debris was falling down on the building and it didn’t look good. But they had a hose line operating. Like I said, it was hitting the sidewalk across the street, but eventually they pulled back too. – Capt. Chris Boyle http://tinyurl.com/e7bzp
Someone gave a Mayday. I guess it was someone trapped under one of the pedestrian bridges. We started to go under there to look. One of the Chiefs pulled us out of there. He said don't go under there. ..We searched that building and then we started making another move in and we got pulled out again, because I guess the Chiefs were getting more in control of the situation. They pulled everybody out of there. ...that was probably like four or five o'clock before we stopped. –Firefighter Todd Fredrickson http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110403.PDF
When the third building came down that's where we were (Stuyvesant High School). We were actually -- they pulled us all back. Actually they pulled us all the way back that far at the point because they didn't want any -- they didn't want us anywhere near it. Everyone was just running around. When the third building came down, we were on that corner in front of the school, and everybody just stood back.
They pulled us all back at that time, almost an hour before it, because they were sure -- they knew it was going to come down, but they weren't sure. So they pulled everyone back, and everybody stood there and we actually just waited and waited until it went down, because it was unsafe. They wouldn't let anyone next to I guess the two piles, we would call them, where one and two was. We stood back. We waited. –EMT Joseph Fortis http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110200.PDF
After that they decided to pull everybody out and I know -- what building was it? Building 5, I believe [sic], the other tall building there, the third building that came down, they were evacuating people. So everyone just pushed up West Street all the way up towards the high school there. I forget the name of the high school. –Firefighter Brian Russo http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110450.PDF
Then approximately I guess maybe two hours before number 7 came down, we went into Ground Zero and helped dig around and was there when they located Chief Feehan and one of the chiefs pulled us all out because they said 7 was going to come down. –Firefighter Kevin Quinn
So then they aborted us from setting up the tower ladder because they were worried about now Seven coming down. So then they pulled us away. This is where I kind of start remembering a lot.
We came around, I think we took Murray Street down the west side, and we stopped the rig and pulled over to the side and we all got out of the rig. We were standing, waiting for Seven to come down. We were there for quite a while, a couple hours.
During that time a couple of the members felt like we were being useless just standing around. We wanted to do something. So we started trying to walk down, trying to get into the pile. We kept on being turned around from chiefs, because they didn't want us near Seven.
As we were walking, we had to actually get a little closer to Seven. So we turned and looked at Seven, and that's when all the marble siding started popping off the side because it was starting to go down.
We worked our way putting out the car fires, which I don't know if there was ammunition, because there was a lot of cop cars, but there was explosions. Tires were exploding. There had to be about 15 or 20 car fires. We put them out as we worked our way down. –Firefighter Thomas Donato http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110471.PDF
They told us to get out of there because they were worried about 7 World Trade Center, which is right behind it, coming down. We were up on the upper floors of the Verizon building looking at it. You could just see the whole bottom corner of the building was gone. We could look right out over to where the Trade Centers were because we were that high up. Looking over the smaller buildings. I just remember it was tremendous, tremendous fires going on.
Finally they pulled us out. They said all right, get out of that building because that 7, they were really worried about. They pulled us out of there and then they regrouped everybody on Vesey Street, between the water and West Street. They put everybody back in there.
Finally it did come down. From there -- this is much later on in the day, because every day we were so worried about that building we didn't really want to get people close. They were trying to limit the amount of people that were in there. Finally it did come down. That's when they let the guys go on. I just remember we started searching around all the rigs. –Firefighter Richard Banaciski
We operated until they finally started pulling people back. ...They pulled us back, I think it was like probably between 4 and 6, because of Seven. Seven was the concern at the time. –Firefighter Fred Marsilla http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110399.PDF
They put another engine company in there which augmented us. And the stream was even good enough to almost reach Tower 7. And then what happened was, we heard this rumbling sound and my father pulled us all back and then with that Tower 7 came down. –Firefighter Peter Blaich http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/blaich.html
These firefighters mention being withdrawn from a different part of the WTC site because other buildings were believed to be in danger of collapse:
So we were in there just for a few minutes maybe and the chiefs pulled us out. They told us we had to get out, so we got out, and then later on we went back in again, and they pulled us out once more, and that was it. –Firefighter Peter Giammarino http://hosted.ap.org/specials/interactives/_national/sept11_fdny_transcripts/9110436.PDF
We proceeded to go back one block to that post then slowly but surely every two minutes or so
when we started to regroup we were pulled back further and further and further until we were behind – until we were past Stuyvesant High School –Firefighter Dean Beltrami http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110359.PDF